Popular Post KingInfernal Posted February 20, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted February 20, 2022 (edited) Note: the green parts are new additions due to E19. Also E19 Spoilers! Recently i was doing the remaining Reborn sidequest, to prepare myself for E19. After making all the donations at the Grand Hall, i started talking with the NPC at the GH counter, until names the Orre-Reborn railnet project. As a soon as i saw it I immediately looked for informations about it, and then i remembered about that: Quote Day Unknown. I have yet to be successful in making it through the stone door, wither by clever mechanic, brute force or simply digging beyond it. I don't know what kind of magic seals it. I do know that I am weak. I am thin, and exhausted-- physically, mentally, emotionally. I've clung to hope to reach Orre again for far too long. If anyone finds this-- Please apologize to my girl Snow for me. And her gift-- I would ask someone look after the Pokemon. I will rot away here, but it doesn't need to. This is Captain Florence, signing out. Good night. Expand The guy in the lost railcave was tryng to reach Orre. This means that east-Reborn borders with Orre. Soon after i decided to make this: a map of the Reborn-Orre borders. Then i started to make an Reborn-Orre map all with the same style of the Reborn's one(this one is still work in progress, probably forever) Other references to Reborn border with Orre being the one i showed are in the Postgame Reveal hidden contents during the Zeraora quest, wich takes place in the Chrisolia Deepwoods, one of the westermost zone in Reborn. In this quest is confirmed that the poacher are from Orre, wich makes sense considering that Chrisolia is the zone of Reborn with an easyer access from Orre. Also there is a mountain in the westermost part of the Chrisolia Deepwoods, and there is a mountain also in the eastermost part of Orre, wich seems to confirm what i did. Then i said to myself: "Why not do a similiar thing with Pokemon Rejuvenation?" And so i made this: Aevium is several times stated to be close to Kalos, and in the new chapter there is an NPC who say that Aevium is close to Galar. Aevium-Reborn geographical relations For this one i will take in exam just Rejuv, considering that just this one as references to the other. Reveal hidden contents During her story Nymiera say that, years before the Kalos war, the original Deity was splitted in three parts. One of this parts was carried in a "far away region" by the meteor. The region in question is most likely Reborn, for three main reasons: All of us knows that Arceus came to Reborn via a meteor; Reborn borders with Orre, and in Orre there are the shadow pokemons, like in Aevium; Nymiera has two representations of the Reborn's keys in her house. (this discourse make me think how many things in her story aren't true(or literally). Not only she say us that Adrest and Meteor Arceus are dead, but also that the Archetype Arceus is the one that everyone knows, wich is false, considering that in Reborn they worship the Meteor.) Also, if we takes the real life positions as a reference, they are really "far away". Aevium is in Europe, while Reborn is in the west coasts of the USA(Orre corrispond to Arizona, and there are high chances that Reborn is based on a portion of the south California(Teknite Range=South Coast Range?, Carnelia Range(Ametrine, Celestine, Charous)=Sierra Nevada?). Also, if i'm not mistaken, Ame already confirmed that Reborn is in the "West Pokemon USA" between California, South Nevada and small part of Arizona) Reborn-Rejuvenation timeline When is Pokemon Reborn set? A question i made my self from the first time i played Reborn is "where is Reborn in the Pokemon timeline?". From what i remember, in game we have just two "time reference" to the canons Pokemon games: Shelly. We know that she is Bugsy's little sister. Considering that Bugsy was probably 10 in HG/SS and that Shelly is 12 in Reborn, we can conclude that Reborn is set atleast 3 years after the HG/SS and D/P/Pt events and 6 after the FR/GL and R/S/E one. Type: Null sidequest. In the 7th street there are a group of scientists(probably are part of Team Meteor, because, if i'm not mistaken, we see Bennet leave the lab) working on the Type: Null project. This can only mean two things: 1) Someone leaked/sold Type: Null project informations to Team Meteor (8/15 years after Gen I events) 2) Team Meteor take informations of the Type: Null project after Gladion and the MC free them all, similiar to what Macro Cosmos did (11/15 years after the gen I events) I would exclude that Reborn is set 8/10 years after Gen I because Type: Null "evolution" is already called Silvally, and the name was given to him by Gladion. Now the field is restricted to 11/15. We also have this tumblr where a guy asks Ame where Reborn fits in canon timeline. And Ame replies so: Quote that is such a gap. anyway, it has to be quite a bit after XD, i’d imagine like 8-10 years or so? but as usual it’s deliberately a bit vague Expand She don't want to give us a more precise info, and this sucks, but she made the game and so she makes the rules. Anyway this still a really usefull information. As the anon said, XD takes place 2 years after HGSS/DPPt and consequently 5 years after Gen I/III. Doing some quick calculation we can say that Reborn is set around 13/15 years after Gen I/III. This also sorta confirm the fact that Shelly was already born during HGSS, confirming my previous affermation. I'll place Reborn 14 years after Gen I/III because it's the average between 13 and 15. 15 years after Gen I/III for 2 reasons: Being 15 a multiple of 5 is easyer to do the math. I will explain this in the part concerning Rejuv. Pokemon Rejuvenation If we take the Rejuv Type: Null sidequest as a reference, we can say that Rejuvenation is set 10/11 years after the SM/USUM events. I say this because we find the Type: Null ball under the Wispy Tower, and the Wispy Tower has been destroyed 10 years before the Rejuv events. We can also exclude the hypotesys of a leak antecedent to SM/USUM events, because Matthew explicitly says that the various Type: Null copies have been created after the SM/USUM events. In chapter 15 main story we have also a time reference to Reborn: Reveal hidden contents At the start of chapter 15 Alexandra start telling us the story of Celine, the woman who founded the Aevium League. More than 7 years ago(between 71/2 and 81/2 years ago) Celine has been attacked by Madame X. She lost one arm and one leg. Their sons built prosthetics limbs for her. Then she go in a region with a really strong Pokemon League(probably not more than 1 year after the Madame X attack.). When Alexandra name this "powerful League" the game show this: You probably understand where I want to go. The game show us the Reborn Grand Hall, but not just it. The Grand Hall in this image is after Adrienn restoration. This means that Celine came to Reborn some times after the Team Meteor defeats. So, second chaper 15, Rejuvenation takes place 7 years circa after the events of Reborn, which is set around 14 years after Gen I/III. So we can say that Rejuvenation takes place 21 years after the Gen I/III. In Reborn E19 is confirmed that Rejuv takes place 5 years after Reborn. Reveal hidden contents This has been confirmed during Magearna quest. After you accepted this quest you will be able to see Tesla and Amber in the Opal Ward in front of the Grand Hall. If you speak with them Amber will tell us that she is 12, and knowing that she is 17 in Rejuv, we can say that 5 years has passed. Timeline If you note that i forgot/misunderstand/mistook something, please tell me in the comments. 20.000 years ago A meteorite containing Eternatus fell in Galar The first Claydoll was brought to life from a clay doll 10.000 years ago At some point, after the Iron Age, the Regis are sealed in various zone after years of human worshipping. 3.000 years ago (before Kalos war) The original Deity has been splitted in 3 parts by a meteorite. The one transported by the meteor end in a "far away region", the other two fell in Aevium. One of this two parts became the Archetype. (Rejuvenation) A meteorite hit Reborn. From that meteor Arceus came out. (maybe also Giratina) The Darkest Day happened in Galar. Between meteor event and the Kalos war Rejuvenation Reveal hidden contents Garufa made exeriments with the Archetype(?) Garufa created the Core(?) Ieisel created the Crest Griselda events Reborn Giratina caused chaos in Reborn region(maybe also Orre) A warrior(probably a Solaris ancestor) defeated Giratina Mirage Tower is built This one is just a theory/headcanon i wanted to share. If you want you can skip this. Reveal hidden contents Giratina events also caused the phenomenon of corruption of pokemons heart, known as shadow pokemon. To fight this phenomenon two center of shadow purification has been built in Orre and Reborn (Agate Village and Agate City). Both of them use the relic stone as a enegy canneler. 3.000 years ago Kalos war start Kalos war end thaks to the Ultimate Weapon built by AZ 2.500 years ago The Relic Castle is built. 2.000 years ago Hoenn is plagued by a meteor shower. During this meteor shower Groudon and Kyogre fought each other in their primal forms. Rayquaza calmed them. 2.000/1500 years ago The earliest known system for writing is developed and used at the Ruins of Alph, Tanoby Ruins, and Solaceon Ruins. Archaeologists are currently unsure whether the nearly identical Unown preceded or succeeded the writing system, but it is assumed they share some sort of connection. 1.000 years ago A thousand years after the events at Meteor Falls, a meteor struck Hoenn, creating Sootopolis City. Groudon and Kyogre reawakened to fight over the wellspring of primal energy which came from it. The people of Hoenn wished on Rayquaza to save them, and using the meteor, Rayquaza performed the world's first Mega Evolution and calmed the two. Sky Pillar was built in Rayquaza's honour, and the Draconid people promised to pass down the prophecy that in 1,000 years the meteor would return - causing the events of the Delta Episode. 800 years ago Xerneas released life energy throughout the Kalos region and fled to a forest, where it went to sleep in the form of a tree. Yveltal absorbed life energy throughout the Kalos region and fled to the mountains, where it went to sleep in the form of a cocoon. 100 years ago circa Aevium has been discovered. 45 years before Gen I Elgyem is seen for the first time when it appeared from far in the desert. 40 years before Gen I Lunatone is seen for the first time in a crater. 40 years before Gen I circa Elias (El) is born 30 years before Gen I circa Rejuvenation Reveal hidden contents Anethea meet Vitus. Solaris is born Reborn Reveal hidden contents MC and Elias/Taka timetravel to the past with Celebi to make Solaris's father heal the latter. Here they encounter Taube Alcantara, father of the newborn Pheonix Alcantara (Solaris). He will partially heal Celebi. 26/25 years before Gen I Anastasia is born Sandra is born Narcissa is born Maria is born(?) 23 years before Gen I Keta is born 23 years before Gen I Rejuvenation Reveal hidden contents Melia is sent in the past 21 years before Gen I Kreiss is born El meets Solaris 20 years before Gen I An NPC describes Reborn City as a big and beautyfull city, similiar to Hyoshi City. Storm-9 20/15 years before Gen I Around this period Solaris's parents are killed by a thief. Around this period (after Solaris's parents death) Reborn's Legue is founded. The temple at the top of Charous Mountain is replaced by the Pokemon League. 14 years before Gen I N is born Around this period Monty Belrose became the dragon gym leader of Labradorra. Caroline, fire gym leader of Calcenon, try to beat him in a battle for about a month. At the end she beat him. The two end up together, and after a couple of years they get married. 10 years before Gen I circa Saphira is born. 5 years before Gen I WLL starts 3 years before Gen I Laura is born. Reborn: Reveal hidden contents Around this period Radomus joins Team Meteor and meets Zina. He will later steal the four keys and with the help of Sirius will transform them in pieces of jewelry and selling the Ruby Ring to Elena, the Sapphire Breacalets to Monty and Caroline, the Emerald Brooch will end in the hands of Elias and the Amethyst Pendant will be given as a gist to Zina. 2 years before Gen I Reborn postgame Reveal hidden contents During Celebi's quest you and Elias/Taka will encounter Elena Molinar, Corey's wife. In game is said that we are around 15 years in the past, but Elena says that Monty and Caroline only have 2 daughters, so Charlotte isn't born yet, wich means that we are at least 17 years in the past. 1 years before Gen I Charlotte is born. Year 0 Emerald/ORAS and FRLG events Mewtwo has been created Year 1 Noel and Anna are born Reborn Reveal hidden contents Lindsey is born Year 2 Pokemon Colosseum events Year 3 HGSS events Platinum events (Are Sinnoh games canon in Reborn and Rejuv?) Shelly is born Saki, Amber and Veronica(Venam) are born. Reborn Reveal hidden contents Sirius(Reborn) kills Elena Molinar(Corey's wife and Heather's mother) Heather is born Year 4 Start the Decline of Reborn City Adrienn get lost in Citae Astrae Reborn Reveal hidden contents Team Meteor emulates earthquakes for destroy part of the new Reborn City. They destroy also the Yureyu building, wich owned the power plant of the city. This leads to a blackout.(?) Year 5 Pokemon XD events Belrose Mansion fire Year 6 BW events Reborn Solaris gave the Emerald key to El and the next morning he aquires the sight(?) Year 8 B2W2 and XY events Grand Dream City opening(?) Year 10 SM/USUM events Second part of WLL Wispy Tower and Gearen City fire Neo Team Xen foundation(?) Rejuvenation Reveal hidden contents Spacea and Tiempa save Jenner and they give him custody of Melia Flora found Huey and Freya in the Voidal Chasm Year 12/13 Celine is attacked by Madame X Reborn Reveal hidden contents Lumi has a mortal diseas. Her sister Eve start the pulse project for amplifies pokemon's heal power and heal Lumi. Zero threat Eve, and forces her to create a Pulse for Team Meteor The Pulse Magnetone fuses Zero, Eve and Lumi brains in Zero's body. ZEL is born. Team Meteor creates Pulse Muk and Pulse Swalot for pollute the Azurine Lake Year 15 Reborn events. The main game probably takes place over 3 months. Start Reborn Postgame. It probably takes place in approxametely 1/2 weeks. Reborn Reveal hidden contents During the postgame that bittch of Flora Grevillea goes to Reborn for making some research about P.U.L.S.E.s. This will lead to the creation of P.U.L.S.E.+ Musharna in Rejuvenation. After 1/2 week/s ends Reborn Postgame. Alternative timeline: The MC is missing together with Taka/Elias. Anyway Lin lose/Anna is saved also wthout the MC. After some weeks Shelly train herself with Heather and Titania for becoming the champion. She beat the league at her first try. If you are on Reshiram Route, Titania will instantly replace Elias as Elite 4. Titania will anyway become an Elite 4 if Elias is present, just later. (this include also our timeline, considering that what will happen in the alt future will happen in our, because in general we can't change too much, if something has to happen, will happen.) Rejuvenation Reveal hidden contents Jenner return to Gearen, Melia and Venam meet each other Some times after the postgame, Celine go to Reborn for take information about its league. Beetween Reborn and Rejuvenation Reveal hidden contents Cassandra beacme mayor of the GDC Team Xen attack Alamissa Urben Ren run away from home Year 20 Rejuvenations events. They probably starts around February. After more than 2 month starts the Terajuma Arc (around May/early June), that lasts about a month(June/August). Start the GDC Arc and the Bladestar Arc. The latter end in the firsts of November. Rejuvenation alt timeline: Reveal hidden contents Bad Future events. Around this period Adrienn is called to Aevium for restore East Gearen City. He goes with Aya. Venam is missing from her position, so Aya temporally replaces her. Chapter 15 spoilers Reveal hidden contents For all November the main group trains for become stronger. The 1st December the main group will start the search of the Diamond, Pearl and Platinum Component. The 4th(?) December end Chapter 15. The 31st December Team Xen will destroy the GDC using the Xenpurgis. The main group programmed an assault to Team Xen base for the 27th December, two days after Christmas. Year 22 Reborn Ending: Reveal hidden contents Alternative Timeline: Serra stop to being the Ice gym leader. Charlotte will replace her. This is hinted during the Oh-Ho quest, where she say that want to change type and in her ending scene, where she takes a vulpix from the Grand Hall. Blake try to become the ice gym leader, but he will lose against Charlotte. So he'll decide to move to Orre, where he will find a work at the Mt. Battle. Year 25 Reborn Ending: Reveal hidden contents MC and Taka/Elias timetravel to the future, meeting future Heather, who dress like her mother. We later will meet Shelly, the new champion of the region. It's notable how she got alot of influence from Titania. She also uses Noel's Xerneas in her team (and is also strange that we see Noel with his Xerneas during his ending, but he never use it in both Boss Rush and Battle Theme.). Thanks for reading and sorry if i made some grammar mistake. Remember, if you see some error, tell me! Edited July 26, 2022 by KingInfernal 12 3 1 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solandris Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 Great post - I love the feeling of a greater interconnected story to tie everything together, even if indirectly. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Legend Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 Wow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscarus Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 Gotta save it somewhere because this is perhaps the best canon connection between Reborn, Rejuvenation and mainline 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endless sorcerer Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 very interesting and good post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingInfernal Posted March 11, 2022 Author Share Posted March 11, 2022 (edited) I was looking on Tumblr some question about Reborn because i don't have nothing better to do with my life for curiosity, and then i found this. A guy asks Ame where Reborn fits in canon timeline. And Ame replies so: Quote that is such a gap. anyway, it has to be quite a bit after XD, i’d imagine like 8-10 years or so? but as usual it’s deliberately a bit vague Expand She says that Reborn takes place 8/10 years after XD, and XD takes place around 5 years after the Kanto/Hoenn events, wich means that Reborn is set 13/15 years after gen 1/3 games. This also means that Shelly is probably already born during HGSS events, considering that the game takes place 3 years after gen 1/3 and 2 years before XD. I will update the post with this new information when i've some free time. Edited March 11, 2022 by KingInfernal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscarus Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 On 3/11/2022 at 6:52 PM, KingInfernal said: This also means that Shelly is probably already born during HGSS events, Expand Shelly is Bugsy's younger sister. In Reborn, she's 12 while in Johto events, Bugsy is around 12 as well (more like 10-12, but still) That means: - during the evens of Johto games, Shelly was a toddler or little child (from a few months to 2 years) - in Reborn, Bugsy must be somewhere around in his early 20s' ...crap... I've made Bugsy in my Reborn fanfic an non-adult teenager, while he's actually older than Oscar (protag, my OC). Of course, that won't stop me from having Oscar bullying Bugsy for him neglecting Shelly and threatening to destroy his entire career. Which he CAN do - being an Ambassador of PWA and Lance's good friend. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingInfernal Posted March 11, 2022 Author Share Posted March 11, 2022 On 3/11/2022 at 8:04 PM, Oscarus said: Shelly is Bugsy's younger sister. In Reborn, she's 12 while in Johto events, Bugsy is around 12 as well (more like 10-12, but still) That means: - during the evens of Johto games, Shelly was a toddler or little child (from a few months to 2 years) - in Reborn, Bugsy must be somewhere around in his early 20s' Expand And she is at least 19 in Rejuvenation, older than Saki, Venam, Amber, Ren, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscarus Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 On 3/11/2022 at 9:03 PM, KingInfernal said: And she is at least 19 in Rejuvenation, Expand 19/20 - 22 Somewhere around that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadmium48 Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 On 2/20/2022 at 12:01 PM, KingInfernal said: (Are Sinnoh games canon in Reborn and Rejuv?) Expand Is there any reason they can't be? I don't expect PLA to be canon, due to coming out after Reborn and Rejuv's lore was set in stone, but does anything necessarily prevent modern Sinnoh from being canon? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingInfernal Posted March 16, 2022 Author Share Posted March 16, 2022 (edited) On 3/16/2022 at 2:30 AM, Cadmium48 said: Is there any reason they can't be? I don't expect PLA to be canon, due to coming out after Reborn and Rejuv's lore was set in stone, but does anything necessarily prevent modern Sinnoh from being canon? Expand The problem isn't Sinnoh it self, but the Sinnoh lore. For Reborn this means that we have 2 Arceus, one fallen from a meteorite and one born at the top of mt Coronet. Is also excluded the possibility of be the same Arceus because, if i remember correctly, Ame said that Reborn is far away from Hoenn, which means that Sinnoh and Reborn are far apart. This also count for Giratina, in Platinum Giratina is locked in the distortion world, while i Reborn it's retreated in the south est part of the region. For Rejuv the situation is a bit more long. Rejuv confirm the existence of (atleast) three different Arceus: one is in possession of the Reborn MC, before the events of Reborn he lied in the form of a meteorite(El diary describes it as "a rock") hundreds of meters under Reborn City; another one is the Archetype, it is in possession of Reveal hidden contents Allen, Eriena(Erin), Alice and Maria(Melia?) since 47/57 years ago, and before that was in possession of Anathea family, which means that can't be the sinnoh one. It's also true that Nymiera describes it as "the Arceus everyone knows" but, like i already said in this tread, in Reborn never worshiped the Archetype, wich means that we have to take her words lightly; Quote Expand and in the end we have Reveal hidden contents Adrest. At the start i thought that he was the Sinnoh Arceus, because Nymiera says that disintegrated in the atmosphere, and i thought tha this meant that he was ended in the Origin Hall, but then is confirmed that is a guy with the power of change the fate inside us. So we know that, lorewise, Sinnoh Arceus isn't confirmed exist, and it's funny because in game Dialga, Palkia, Giratina and Arceus are named Sinnoh Legendaries. Speaking of PLA, seems to be coherent with Rejuv lore. I nevere played it, but i know that is said that the Arceus we know is just a piece of a bigger Deity, like in Rejuv. This means that there are more than just three Arceus. Is true that Nymiera tell us that the Original Deity was splitted in just three parts, but she also say that the meteorite and Adrest were dead, which is not true. As i said before: Quote we have to take her words lightly Expand because we don't know what is true in her story, neither how is this true. Edited March 16, 2022 by KingInfernal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscarus Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 On 3/16/2022 at 9:45 AM, KingInfernal said: The problem isn't Sinnoh it self, but the Sinnoh lore. For Reborn this means that we have 2 Arceus, one fallen from a meteorite and one born at the top of mt Coronet. Is also excluded the possibility of be the same Arceus because, if i remember correctly, Ame said that Reborn is far away from Hoenn, which means that Sinnoh and Reborn are far apart. This also count for Giratina, in Platinum Giratina is locked in the distortion world, while i Reborn it's retreated in the south est part of the region. For Rejuv the situation is a bit more long. Rejuv confirm the existence of (atleast) three different Arceus: one is in possession of the Reborn MC, before the events of Reborn he lied in the form of a meteorite(El diary describes it as "a rock") hundreds of meters under Reborn City; another one is the Archetype, it is in possession of Reveal hidden contents Allen, Eriena(Erin), Alice and Maria(Melia?) since 47/57 years ago, and before that was in possession of Anathea family, which means that can't be the sinnoh one. It's also true that Nymiera describes it as "the Arceus everyone knows" but, like i already said in this tread, in Reborn never worshiped the Archetype, wich means that we have to take her words lightly; Quote Expand and in the end we have Reveal hidden contents Adrest. At the start i thought that he was the Sinnoh Arceus, because Nymiera says that disintegrated in the atmosphere, and i thought tha this meant that he was ended in the Origin Hall, but then is confirmed that is a guy with the power of change the fate inside us. So we know that, lorewise, Sinnoh Arceus isn't confirmed exist, and it's funny because in game Dialga, Palkia, Giratina and Arceus are named Sinnoh Legendaries. Speaking of PLA, seems to be coherent with Rejuv lore. I nevere played it, but i know that is said that the Arceus we know is just a piece of a bigger Deity, like in Rejuv. This means that there are more than just one Arceus. Is true that Nymiera tell us that the Original Deity was splitted in just three parts, but she also say that the meteorite and Adrest were dead, which is not true. As i said before: Quote we have to take her words lightly Expand because we don't know what is true in her story, neither how is this true. Expand There is an theory that Arceus we can see and use is just "one of their arms", which consists only a piece of power of the Alpha One. But that contradicts with the multiple stories of Arceus' birth and creation. But neither GameFreak nor other creators are consistent with their creations. Like-... According to different lores, Arceus themselves have created: Hisui/Sinnoh, Ransei, Reborn, maybe Aevium, and some other regions I've forgotten. And in many cases, it is said to be different Arceus. Y-yeah, even if Original One had been split into three few thousand years ago, that's still not enough! Also-, what kind of meteor was that to defeat and split it? Was that the meteor from 12th movie, which actually managed to do it, or stronger one, as the former only managed to knock them out and kill had it not been for Damos? I know that's fanmade; non-canon, but it is very complicated. And also contradicts with the events of my headcanon and lore-... Everything else is nice, good. But that Arceus part is SO confusing - Jesus Christ... On 2/20/2022 at 12:01 PM, KingInfernal said: Zina disappears Expand Wasn't she confirmed to be dead? And hinted that it was Sirius to kill her? Her tombstone is seen on Beryl Cementery, and Sirius in Yureyu has confirmed to know Anna's father, calling him "a fool". Plus we know he was hunting for the keys... probably even before joining Team Meteor (because we don't know where that did happen, and how old Team Meteor exactly is): for Ruby Ring he murdered Elena, for Sapphire Bracelet he set Belrose mansion on fire, and for Amethyst Pendant... that. Still... We don't know if he killed (or tried to kill) someone for Emerald Brooch, which was in Elias' possession. He could (theorically) kill Elias' wife/fiancée (assuming he had one in the first place), but because of certain circumstances (like Solaris or Elias fighting back), he couldn't get it. Regardless, as of Reborn's V18 and Rejuvenation's V13, there's way too little info to claim something to be true On 2/20/2022 at 12:01 PM, KingInfernal said: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingInfernal Posted March 16, 2022 Author Share Posted March 16, 2022 (edited) On 3/16/2022 at 11:17 AM, Oscarus said: There is an theory that Arceus we can see and use is just "one of their arms", which consists only a piece of power of the Alpha One. Expand I know this theory. There is also one that say that the various types came from Ancient Giant defeated by Arceus On 3/16/2022 at 11:17 AM, Oscarus said: But that contradicts with the multiple stories of Arceus' birth and creation. But neither GameFreak nor other creators are consistent with their creations. Like-... According to different lores, Arceus themselves have created: Hisui/Sinnoh, Ransei, Reborn, maybe Aevium, and some other regions I've forgotten. And in many cases, it is said to be different Arceus. Expand I think Arceus didn't create any region, they are just myths, and as a such the don't tell the reality. Remember that every people has different myths about the same thing, often also from the same group (I don't know if i can do references to real life religions, but i think you get what i mean) On 3/16/2022 at 11:17 AM, Oscarus said: Wasn't she confirmed to be dead? And hinted that it was Sirius to kill her? Her tombstone is seen on Beryl Cementery, and Sirius in Yureyu has confirmed to know Anna's father, calling him "a fool". Plus we know he was hunting for the keys... probably even before joining Team Meteor (because we don't know where that did happen, and how old Team Meteor exactly is): for Ruby Ring he murdered Elena, for Sapphire Bracelet he set Belrose mansion on fire, and for Amethyst Pendant... that. Still... We don't know if he killed (or tried to kill) someone for Emerald Brooch, which was in Elias' possession. He could (theorically) kill Elias' wife/fiancée (assuming he had one in the first place), but because of certain circumstances (like Solaris or Elias fighting back), he couldn't get it. Expand I was a bit doubious about it. Also i don't remember nothing from the Post Glass Guntlet scene, not because i didn't like it, because it's one of my favorite if not my favorite part of the game for now, but mainly because my brother decided to bother me right during the part with more lore. On 3/16/2022 at 11:17 AM, Oscarus said: Regardless, as of Reborn's V18 and Rejuvenation's V13, there's way too little info to claim something to be true On 2/20/2022 at 12:01 PM, KingInfernal said: Expand You are right, especially if we talk about Nymiera's story. Edited March 16, 2022 by KingInfernal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscarus Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 On 3/16/2022 at 5:27 PM, KingInfernal said: they are just myths, and as a such the don't tell the reality. Expand Still... Sometimes it is the only "logical" answer. Otherwise, how would you explain Ransei region being shaped EXACTLY LIKE ARCEUS?! On 3/16/2022 at 5:27 PM, KingInfernal said: There is also one that say that the various types came from Ancient Giant defeated by Arceus Expand Ancient Giant... I've never heard of it. You mean Regigigas? Or that "Regialpha"? On 3/16/2022 at 5:27 PM, KingInfernal said: Also i don't remember nothing from the Post Glass Guntlet scene, not because i didn't like it, because it's one of my favorite if not my favorite part of the game for now, but mainly because my brother decided to bother me right during the part with more lore. Expand F Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingInfernal Posted March 17, 2022 Author Share Posted March 17, 2022 (edited) On 3/16/2022 at 6:02 PM, Oscarus said: Still... Sometimes it is the only "logical" answer. Otherwise, how would you explain Ransei region being shaped EXACTLY LIKE ARCEUS?! Expand Maybe i've explained myself badly. What i mean is that the fact Arceus creates the various regions is, in my opinion, false, but i'm convinced that every myth is based on a real event, just exaggerated and with the addition of various religious elements. For Ransei... i don't think that Conquest is canon in both main-game and Reborn. Edited March 17, 2022 by KingInfernal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farhan Ahmad Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 Now I want a cameo of reborn protag in rejuv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingInfernal Posted June 3, 2022 Author Share Posted June 3, 2022 (edited) On 6/3/2022 at 5:04 PM, Farhan Ahmad said: Now I want a cameo of reborn protag in rejuv Expand I really doubt we will never see something like that unless they make that Rejuv can read Reborn's savefiles. I haven't finished the postgame yet (that's why the post isn't updated to e19, i will probably update the post the next week), but some of the Reborn characters that aren't connected to any route choice that can appear in Rejuv are(E19 and Rejuv spoilers): Reveal hidden contents Agate Triumvirate. Now we know that all of them are alive, and the Agate Circus is also in the GDC. I don't expect to see a quest dedicated to them(but there is a hope), but just see their sprites or hear their name when the GDC is freed from the Bladestars. Hardy and/or Cain. Aya is in Aevium and is replacing Venam as Gym Leader(wich makes her the poison Leader of both Aevium and Reborn). Hardy is Aya boyfriend and Cain is her brother. Also i'm pretty sure that before or later we will see and challenge all the Reborn's rivals, as a nostalgic trio for who played Reborn and for remember that Rejuv takes inspiration from Reborn, the challenge part will obviously happen in the postgame. Fern and Victoria. I've already explained why. Also Victoria in Reborn seems to get along with Adrienn who is in Aevium. Heather and/or Shelly. Heather maybe for beat the sh1t out of Flora after what's happened in the postgame(i doubt but would be funny). Jokes aside maybe she goes to Aevium for a journey with, maybe, the purpose of help Shelly in doing some research, considering that we know that Champion Shelly timeline she is studing for become Prof Pokemon. I know that she isn't (yet), champion in actual Rejuv timeline and that timelin takes place 5 years after Rejuv and 10 after Reborn, but we don't how much you have to study for become a Prof neither when she started to study, but still a cute idea. Eve. I will make this one simple. Aya and Adrienn start the restoration of West Gearen and found the base of P.U.L.S.E. musharna. They will call Eve, and then she will discover who really Flora is, but if she already read the news about Flora, she will simply say that Flora is a b1tch and that she has been stupid for giving the access to the P.U.L.S.E. to someone like Flora. Edited June 4, 2022 by KingInfernal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingInfernal Posted June 14, 2022 Author Share Posted June 14, 2022 (edited) So i finished to update this post to E19. I really loved this game, except for the fact that there are too many 4th wall breaks about the MC, that i found a bit annoying. But other than that i REALLY liked it. Anyway if i forgot something or because i actual forgot that or because i didn't played the earlygame yet, please tell me. Edited June 14, 2022 by KingInfernal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscarus Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 Reborn's V19 and Rejuvenation's V13 contradict each other in one manner: Reveal hidden contents The creation of Aevium League. I'll show you why: On 2/20/2022 at 12:01 PM, KingInfernal said: At the start of chapter 15 Alexandra start telling us the story of Celine, the woman who founded the Aevium League. More than 7 years ago(between 71/2 and 81/2 years ago) Celine has been attacked by Madame X. She lost one arm and one leg. Their sons built prosthetics limbs for her. Then she go in a region with a really strong Pokemon League(probably not more than 1 year after the Madame X attack.). When Alexandra name this "powerful League" the game show this: You probably understand where I want to go. The game show us the Reborn Grand Hall, but not just it. The Grand Hall in this image is after Adrienn restoration. This means that Celine came to Reborn some times after the Team Meteor defeats. Expand ...and... On 2/20/2022 at 12:01 PM, KingInfernal said: In Reborn E19 is confirmed that Rejuv takes place 5 years after Reborn. Expand See? According to Alexandra, her mother had gone to Reborn AFTER Team Meteor had been defeated, which was supposedly 7/8 years ago. But Team Meteor was ultimately defeated 5 years before Rejuvenation! That means when Celine had arrived to Reborn City, it COULDN'T be after the conflict was over, because at the time of 7/8 years before Rejuvenation, Reborn still was in ruin. But if that isn't a plot hole (which is unlikely, but still), that means that the picture of Celine entering Grand Hall must've been taken years after founding Aevium League. Which might be the actual truth, as Celine has different colored arms and legs; I don't know however whether the white parts are clothing, or prostheses, so that's a slight inconvenience Still, there's a possibility Alexandra lied, or someone else lied to her and she only unintentionally spread the fake news... or devs tripped over their own storyplots and made a mistake which is hardly noticeable for mere players, but very apparent for lore geeks. Um... sorry about the last one, I can be a prick when it comes to pointing mistakes. Of course, everyone can make mistakes, especially in the such huge projects. But that doesn't erase the contradiction. As I said, maybe that photo was indeed taken after the Aevium League's foundation, but let's not get our hopes high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Na Nobuyuki Posted April 6, 2023 Share Posted April 6, 2023 Feels wierd that this never clicked to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverlime Posted December 28, 2024 Share Posted December 28, 2024 Interesting discussion. I know I'm way late to the party but there are a couple things I was wondering. First, I see you placed a 3 year gap between Platinum and BW, but I would guess that the gap there would be bigger. One of the recent leaks had something saying that DP is 10 years after BW (image copied below). Also looking at how Caitlin aged between these games, it would seem that the gap is larger too. It's confirmed that Caitlin is an adult in Pokemon Masters based on her saying "As I moved into adulthood, I was able to control my emotions better and better." - this suggests that she's also probably a little older than 18 in the events of BW considering this likely happened before she became an elite 4 member. The recent leaks also had something saying in her concept art that she was in her mid 20s in BW which seems about right based on what's said in Masters. And then looking at her in Platinum, she looks no older than in her mid teens (I think the person who designed her said she was supposed to be 14). Also how do we know that Shelly is 12 in Reborn? I couldn't find anything which said that, though we know she's under 18 because she says that she's alone with the signed consent of her parents or whatever when talking to Sigmund Connal. Though if she's the same age as Heather (who looks no older than like 12) I guess this would make sense (not sure if that's confirmed anywhere). Lastly I'm wondering how you've placed the upper bound of 15 years on the leaked Type: Null information as well as the upper bound of 11 years on Rejuv's events after SM. I think all that's fair to assume based on this stuff is that Reborn's events occurred after the events of SM, and Rejuv's events occurred at least 10 years after the events of SM. So if Reborn is 5 years before Rejuv, this means that Reborn is at least 5 years after SM. Assuming the gap between Pt and BW is 10 years, this would change things a little but I think it still works? Pt is 3 years after RB, and SM is 4 years after BW, so SM could be about 17 years after RB. Then that would make Reborn let's say 5 years later, at 22 years after RB. Going back to Shelly, Bugsy would be about 29 at this time then (as opposed to 22 in your estimation). Could Shelly reasonably be more than 11 years younger than Bugsy? It might seem like a bit of a stretch (especially if she's actually 12), but it could explain why we wouldn't know anything about Shelly in HGSS (since she wasn't born yet), and perhaps also if her brother is so much older than her it would make more sense why she looks up to him and is trying to get him to notice her (he's less likely to acknowledge her much if he's way older too). The other thing is that this would place Reborn's events more like 17 years after XD (which is a fair bit higher than what Ame guessed - though she did say "quite a bit after XD" which could mean she meant more so at least 8-10 years, not less). However, if you look at the message she was responding to, it seems like she was using the (likely incorrect) information in that message to give her estimation - the gap between FRLG/ORAS and SM is likely closer to 17 years, not 10. What we can see from her message is that she might be trying to say that Reborn is 3-5 years after SM, which would still be able to stand with everything else if the 5-year gap (which you gave) is right. The question she answered is below. Quote Do you have any idea where Rebon fits into the canon timeline? According to an article in Bulbapedia, the gap between FRLG/ORAS and S/M is 10 years and XD is 2 years after the HGSS/DPPt events (this is not official) Expand Does my revision create any contradictions? I'm trying to piece things together for the sake of my own game's timeline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverlime Posted December 28, 2024 Share Posted December 28, 2024 On 6/14/2022 at 1:22 PM, Oscarus said: Reborn's V19 and Rejuvenation's V13 contradict each other in one manner: Reveal hidden contents The creation of Aevium League. I'll show you why: ...and... See? According to Alexandra, her mother had gone to Reborn AFTER Team Meteor had been defeated, which was supposedly 7/8 years ago. But Team Meteor was ultimately defeated 5 years before Rejuvenation! That means when Celine had arrived to Reborn City, it COULDN'T be after the conflict was over, because at the time of 7/8 years before Rejuvenation, Reborn still was in ruin. But if that isn't a plot hole (which is unlikely, but still), that means that the picture of Celine entering Grand Hall must've been taken years after founding Aevium League. Which might be the actual truth, as Celine has different colored arms and legs; I don't know however whether the white parts are clothing, or prostheses, so that's a slight inconvenience Still, there's a possibility Alexandra lied, or someone else lied to her and she only unintentionally spread the fake news... or devs tripped over their own storyplots and made a mistake which is hardly noticeable for mere players, but very apparent for lore geeks. Um... sorry about the last one, I can be a prick when it comes to pointing mistakes. Of course, everyone can make mistakes, especially in the such huge projects. But that doesn't erase the contradiction. As I said, maybe that photo was indeed taken after the Aevium League's foundation, but let's not get our hopes high. Expand Also I'd like to address this with a potential explanation. Yes, it seems odd that 2-3 years before the events of Reborn, Celine appears before a "restored" Grand Hall. However, one explanation to this is that the Grand Hall we see in this picture is not in fact the "restored" version, but rather the "pre-destruction" version. It is called a "restoration" for a reason, in that the goal is to bring the city back to how it was, not something different (maybe the Grand Hall was brought back to exactly what it was before). Therefore, it could be possible that the earthquakes and stuff hadn't gotten too bad yet until closer to the start of Reborn's story. The timeline of events (https://pokemon-reborn.fandom.com/wiki/Timeline_of_Events) just states that the city fell to ruin sometime less than 10 years before the start of the story, so if the area around the Grand Hall only fell into disrepair less than 2-3 years ago, everything could still make sense I think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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