Mono Run Ranking List

[Whitelight]

Hello all,

It has been a dream of mine for the last few years (while waiting for the final update of reborn) to complete the game (just to the credits post E4, not all the way through endgame) with EVERY mono type run. I would like to share my opinions on a rough "ranking list" for difficulty of the mono run. I would love some feedback/thoughts on the list, and am open to switching some spots around.

 

A small disclaimer too, I am looking at this WHOLISTICALLY, so ideally I don't want to put a team on the top JUST because they "have an OP lategame" or "will breeze through the story early" but those are definitely things to take into consideration and will affect the final placement. Without further ado, here is my list! :

(from easiest to hardest)

Spoiler

1. Fighting

2. Fire

3. Ground

4. Ghost

5. Steel

6. Water

7. Dark

8. Poison

9. Normal

10. Psychic

11. Flying

12. Fairy

13. Grass

14. Rock

15. Bug

16. Dragon

17. Ice

18. Electric

 Looking forward to having some discussion about this!!!

 

 

Finally Finished!!! I will say just because you have a hard time dealing with fast flying threats, of which there are a few, I would say Fighting gets bumped down a notch or two, probably coming in #2 now. Overall though I think the leveling process of going through the game was much smoother with fighting but whereas it felt like fire started harder and got easier, Fighting was the opposite and got a bit more difficult towards the late game.

 

Spoiler

1. Fire

2. Fighting

3. Flying

4. Bug

5.  Dark

6. Water

7. Fairy

8.  Steel

9. Psychic

10. Ghost

11. Poison 

12. Normal

13. Ground

14. Rock

15. Ice

16. Dragon

17. Electric

18. Grass

 

[TheRK9]

Fighting and Fire are on top just because of Blaziken lol. I would argue that Fire is better than Fighting simply because of your mystery egg either giving you Sun before Shelly, or a Volcarona before Radomus. 

As for Ground, I can confirm that it's very solid throughout, although it's definitely been nerfed with Excadrill being moved back. 

There are a few things I would change with this however:
- Ghost should probably be a little lower than 4th considering the lackluster early-game. It does pick up once you get the mystery egg, and is a very good type overall, but I would place it closer to 6th-7th.

- Flying is far above average. While you struggle a bit with Julia, but since you have several options by that point, including several 3rd stage evolutions, it's fine. I gets access to so many options relatively early on including Togekiss, Talonflame, Murkrow, Emolga etc., and you have access to 14/17 secondary types before Serra. And it's a great type late game as well, since you get options like (Mega) Salamence, Dragonite, Gliscor, Skarmory, Mega Pinsir, Hawlucha, Gyarados, Staraptor, Togekiss etc.. Top 5 for sure.
- Water should probably beat Steel to the top 5. It's the most abundant type in the game, and has a lot of options at every point in the game. It is also a phenomenal type overall, with its only 2 weaknesses being out of the way in the easiest 2 gyms. It also has one of the best mid-late game of any type by virtue of Rain being completely broken. 
- Fairy should be a little higher as well, considering it is the best type in the game on its own, and it gets access to Misty Terrain, and terrain control is incredibly good. 
- Rock should be lower. It's a good type offensively, but it lacks way too much defensively to rank above Dragon, Ice and Bug. Weather is good, but it makes much less use of it than the other weather users do, with only 1 Sand Rush user available. Lycanium Z is broken, but that is very late in the game. 
- Bug is WAYYYYYYYY too low. Early Quiver Dance means it has arguably the best early game of any type. Wormadam also sweeps half the game on its own. If you allow Shedinja, that's broken, and you don't even get Larvesta late because the Mystery Egg guarantees it. You also get Baton Pass Scolipede, Rage Powder users for doubles, Hazard Setters like Forretress and more early in the game. Even though the late game is below average, I would argue that Bug should end up much closer to the middle of the list.
- Ice might be a bit better than 17th by virtue of getting Snow Warning+Slush Rush before Shade, but considering the terrible late game it's probably fine. 

All and all, this is a pretty good list, and if I had it my way I would probably do:

Spoiler

1. Fire 

2. Fighting

3. Ground

4. Water

5. Flying

6. Steel

7. Ghost

8. Poison

9. Fairy

10. Dark

11. Bug

12. Normal

13. Psychic

14. Grass

15. Dragon

16. Ice

17. Rock

18. Electric

 

[Whitelight]

1 hour ago, TheRK9 said:

Fighting and Fire are on top just because of Blaziken lol. I would argue that Fire is better than Fighting simply because of your mystery egg either giving you Sun before Shelly, or a Volcarona before Radomus. 

As for Ground, I can confirm that it's very solid throughout, although it's definitely been nerfed with Excadrill being moved back. 

There are a few things I would change with this however:
- Ghost should probably be a little lower than 4th considering the lackluster early-game. It does pick up once you get the mystery egg, and is a very good type overall, but I would place it closer to 6th-7th.

- Flying is far above average. While you struggle a bit with Julia, but since you have several options by that point, including several 3rd stage evolutions, it's fine. I gets access to so many options relatively early on including Togekiss, Talonflame, Murkrow, Emolga etc., and you have access to 14/17 secondary types before Serra. And it's a great type late game as well, since you get options like (Mega) Salamence, Dragonite, Gliscor, Skarmory, Mega Pinsir, Hawlucha, Gyarados, Staraptor, Togekiss etc.. Top 5 for sure.
- Water should probably beat Steel to the top 5. It's the most abundant type in the game, and has a lot of options at every point in the game. It is also a phenomenal type overall, with its only 2 weaknesses being out of the way in the easiest 2 gyms. It also has one of the best mid-late game of any type by virtue of Rain being completely broken. 
- Fairy should be a little higher as well, considering it is the best type in the game on its own, and it gets access to Misty Terrain, and terrain control is incredibly good. 
- Rock should be lower. It's a good type offensively, but it lacks way too much defensively to rank above Dragon, Ice and Bug. Weather is good, but it makes much less use of it than the other weather users do, with only 1 Sand Rush user available. Lycanium Z is broken, but that is very late in the game. 
- Bug is WAYYYYYYYY too low. Early Quiver Dance means it has arguably the best early game of any type. Wormadam also sweeps half the game on its own. If you allow Shedinja, that's broken, and you don't even get Larvesta late because the Mystery Egg guarantees it. You also get Baton Pass Scolipede, Rage Powder users for doubles, Hazard Setters like Forretress and more early in the game. Even though the late game is below average, I would argue that Bug should end up much closer to the middle of the list.
- Ice might be a bit better than 17th by virtue of getting Snow Warning+Slush Rush before Shade, but considering the terrible late game it's probably fine. 

All and all, this is a pretty good list, and if I had it my way I would probably do:

  Hide contents

1. Fire 

2. Fighting

3. Ground

4. Water

5. Flying

6. Steel

7. Ghost

8. Poison

9. Fairy

10. Dark

11. Bug

12. Normal

13. Psychic

14. Grass

15. Dragon

16. Ice

17. Rock

18. Electric

 

Wow thanks for the reply! I really agree with almost all of what you said, the only things i would disagree with is I think that fighting still edges out fire by a TINY bit just because fires weakness to earth and rock can be rough, especially with the amount of earthquakes and rock slides that get thrown around. But I think they are SUPER close. Also I actually am in the middle of my rock solo run right now, and I already did the ice run and so far I think rock is just a teensy bit more solid. The reasoning is that rock has a little more wiggle room in the selection department, and that NO ice types learn any fire moves, so mega scizor becomes a tremendous threat late game. All in all though I think the rest of the changes are completely fair!  I would say my list has adjusted to reflect these changes :

Spoiler

1. Fighting

2. Fire

3. Ground

4. Water

5. Flying

6. Steel

7. Ghost

8. Poison

9. Fairy

10. Dark

11. Bug

12. Normal

13. Psychic

14. Grass

15. Dragon

16. Rock

17. Ice

18. Electric

 

Also, the only runs I have done so far are electric, ice, dragon, and I'm currently on rock. I have done my best to do the lowest tiers first and save the easier ones for last. So far it looks like I've done ok staying to the bottom. Electric and ice were honestly brutal since you just don't have that many mon to choose from and dragon was AWFUL until the third or fourth gym when you could start pushing for evos and get a few more dragons other than the almighty swarm of noibats lol

[TheRK9]

2 minutes ago, Whitelight said:

I think that fighting still edges out fire by a TINY bit just because fires weakness to earth and rock can be rough, especially with the amount of earthquakes and rock slides that get thrown around

While this is true, I would argue that Fire does a good enough covering its weaknesses for it to not outweigh its advantages. For example, there are many good Fire types like Charizard, Talonflame and Rotom-Heat are immune to Earthquake, and Blaziken/Infernape absolutely destroy Rock types. And just in general, there are so many strong offensive Fire types that the defensive weaknesses don't matter as much, since you can just trade off Pokémon and revenge kill. Even beyond that, once you get your hands on the Solar Beam TM, you can cover literally all of your weaknesses. 

Fighting types on the other hand are generally quite slow, so the can't handle their weaknesses against things like Ciel and Adrienn quite as easily.

 

13 minutes ago, Whitelight said:

Also I actually am in the middle of my rock solo run right now, and I already did the ice run and so far I think rock is just a teensy bit more solid. The reasoning is that rock has a little more wiggle room in the selection department, and that NO ice types learn any fire moves, so mega scizor becomes a tremendous threat late game.

That's fair. Rock types don't have much room for selection either, but they certainly do a lot better in that department, especially once you get the Fossils. And yeah, that Titania fight is really rough for Ice, although I'm not sure Rock does that much better. I also remember Cloyster being really good for that fight with its naturally high defense and Shell Armor boosting it.

[Whitelight]

36 minutes ago, TheRK9 said:

While this is true, I would argue that Fire does a good enough covering its weaknesses for it to not outweigh its advantages. For example, there are many good Fire types like Charizard, Talonflame and Rotom-Heat are immune to Earthquake, and Blaziken/Infernape absolutely destroy Rock types. And just in general, there are so many strong offensive Fire types that the defensive weaknesses don't matter as much, since you can just trade off Pokémon and revenge kill. Even beyond that, once you get your hands on the Solar Beam TM, you can cover literally all of your weaknesses. 

Fighting types on the other hand are generally quite slow, so the can't handle their weaknesses against things like Ciel and Adrienn quite as easily.

 

That's fair. Rock types don't have much room for selection either, but they certainly do a lot better in that department, especially once you get the Fossils. And yeah, that Titania fight is really rough for Ice, although I'm not sure Rock does that much better. I also remember Cloyster being really good for that fight with its naturally high defense and Shell Armor boosting it.

Yeah cloister did carry pretty hard a few times, shell smash is a hell of a move. I'm assuming once I get minior with acrobatics and shell smash I'll be coasting for a good bit, although that is REALLY late in the game. Good point about the strong fire types too, I would honestly give fighting and Fire a tie if I could lol. Even with the slowness of fighting types they still have access to some tech like vacuum wave nasty plot toxicroak and moxie heracross which can be pretty brutal in their own right, but yknow now that I think about it I think Fire may very well edge out fighting by just a hair due to them having more access to field-altering effects. Heat wave does some WORK on multiple different fields and can turn any tank or sweeper into a field setter in a pinch if need be... so yeah I could see flipping Fire and fighting. 

 

I think the challenge for me with flipping ice and rock though is that ice is weak to literally EVERY major attack type, being fighting fire Rock and steel. I find that Rock has access to a few tools that ice GENERALLY lacks too such as access to a few different pokemon with sturdy, which can be a godsend. Also, im a fan of earthquake golem as well as metal burst sturdy aggron. But I haven't got all the way through with Rock yet, I'm just getting to apophyll which I am assuming will be the first "big" hurdle.

[Kamado]

me struggling with monofire lol

 

[Whitelight]

1 hour ago, Kamado said:

me struggling with monofire lol

 

Lol don't feel too bad. I'm pretty sure even the easiest mono type run is still one of the most challenging ways to play the game. What part are you having trouble with?

[Mia789]

I really like your list and I can agree with nearly everything. I am kinda surprised to see Psychic & Normal in the middle. Maybe it was just me with luck or so but I found these 2 runs the easiest with who were also my first 2. Electric and Dragon were the hardset for me as well and Fairy was the beginning and lategame a horror for me. Fire was middle hard for probably cause I didnt use Blazekin for once^^.

I really enjoy listening to the experiences all had with their monoruns.

[RebornFan7]

I have done bug and ice as of episode 18 and I agree that bug is easier than ice. But to be honest, I didn't find ice to be all that hard, but then again, I started with a wonder traded shellder and got an alolan vulpix that easily got out the mareanie that walled the rest of my team with extrasensory in the Corey fight. Haven't tried yet a monotype with the new passwords but I think I will do so in the future, it will make some of the more difficult to begin monotypes a lot more easy to manage.

I remember having trouble with Solaris' mega garchomp on the bug monotype, turns out not having a mon with an ice move this thing can live many hits, and it hits like a truck. Araquanid took care of Charlotte and scizor beat Hardy. Aya I had some problems surprisingly but I used a wormadam steel with quiver dance and managed to beat her, I only needed to take care of her salazzle. The early game was a lot easier for the bug monotype, what with having so many options and some of them fully evolved. 

I recall using alolan sandslash against Titania in the ice monotype, and I remember I had trouble because of the seeds she was using that prevented damage on her pokemon, that prevented my sweepers from attacking and they of course were taken out, being weak to steel and steel moves being boosted on the field, it was inevitable. I think I beat her using the seeds myself, and I beat Charlotte by using Blizzard to terminate the field and then using Mamoswine with earthquake to take out the fire mons. Mamoswine fainted at some point but I brought it back with a revive and it wrecked havoc twice. I used the blizzard strat on Amaria too, but I had also a real good surprise for her, a water absorb Lapras with freeze dry, took out all of her team except her own Lapras, it was wild. 

[Cassandra]

I haven't done most of these monotypes, but I also did not find Ice that tricky, to be honest – you get a lot of decent mid-game options after the third badge (though things are sort of rough beforehand), and though Titania is pretty challenging, the rest of the late game is largely smooth sailing. Ciel, Adrienn, Amaria, Saphira, and even Hardy are eminently beatable, although the postgame (which I only beat using my Ice monotype as of now, so I have no real sense as to whether or not it was easier or more difficult than using other types) did give me a few difficulties. Dragon works somewhat well late in the game, but the pure suffering that is the early game kind of has me agree with the ranking. Water was ... alright, I guess. It definitely gives you a lot of options, but I found myself switching around my team so much that I did not feel like I was doing a proper monotype run. I am more used to trying to build an all-around decent team with only some slight modifications in, say, movesets for specific battles.

[Kamado]

19 hours ago, Whitelight said:

Lol don't feel too bad. I'm pretty sure even the easiest mono type run is still one of the most challenging ways to play the game. What part are you having trouble with?

Fiore Gauntlet. No surprise since my team I think sucks as. I don't plan my teams in detail like others though

 

[Whitelight]

On 5/14/2022 at 5:41 AM, Mia789 said:

I really like your list and I can agree with nearly everything. I am kinda surprised to see Psychic & Normal in the middle. Maybe it was just me with luck or so but I found these 2 runs the easiest with who were also my first 2. Electric and Dragon were the hardset for me as well and Fairy was the beginning and lategame a horror for me. Fire was middle hard for probably cause I didnt use Blazekin for once^^.

I really enjoy listening to the experiences all had with their monoruns.

Thanks! And yeah I love hearing feedback on runs too, I feel like a lot of times people have different strategies or ideas on how to beat runs. For me in the dragon run there were a few times I had to battle item buff turtonator and sweet just because ice types destroyed everyone except for him. I think a few of the runs are placed a little lower on the ranking mostly because of super late game, where stat totals become a bit bigger deal, and abilities as well as STAB effectiveness as well. For example, normal has some GREAT pokemon but it kinda sucks that normal isn't super effective against anything so it makes it a bit harder. 

 

I haven't done fairy yet but im kinda dreading it a bit. Their weaknesses are a bit inconvenient since Steel and poison moves are used as "coverage" on a ton of pokemon, but we will see how it goes!

[Whitelight]

On 5/14/2022 at 7:07 AM, RebornFan7 said:

I have done bug and ice as of episode 18 and I agree that bug is easier than ice. But to be honest, I didn't find ice to be all that hard, but then again, I started with a wonder traded shellder and got an alolan vulpix that easily got out the mareanie that walled the rest of my team with extrasensory in the Corey fight. Haven't tried yet a monotype with the new passwords but I think I will do so in the future, it will make some of the more difficult to begin monotypes a lot more easy to manage.

I remember having trouble with Solaris' mega garchomp on the bug monotype, turns out not having a mon with an ice move this thing can live many hits, and it hits like a truck. Araquanid took care of Charlotte and scizor beat Hardy. Aya I had some problems surprisingly but I used a wormadam steel with quiver dance and managed to beat her, I only needed to take care of her salazzle. The early game was a lot easier for the bug monotype, what with having so many options and some of them fully evolved. 

I recall using alolan sandslash against Titania in the ice monotype, and I remember I had trouble because of the seeds she was using that prevented damage on her pokemon, that prevented my sweepers from attacking and they of course were taken out, being weak to steel and steel moves being boosted on the field, it was inevitable. I think I beat her using the seeds myself, and I beat Charlotte by using Blizzard to terminate the field and then using Mamoswine with earthquake to take out the fire mons. Mamoswine fainted at some point but I brought it back with a revive and it wrecked havoc twice. I used the blizzard strat on Amaria too, but I had also a real good surprise for her, a water absorb Lapras with freeze dry, took out all of her team except her own Lapras, it was wild. 

Yeah I could see the ice run being much easier with a cloyster just because it can be such a powerhouse with shell smash and skill link. I ran it with the passwords and dang it can be tough getting through the early game and late game. I think Walrien was one of the only reasons I got through that run. My main issue with ice was that there were a few pokemon that you can hardly touch late game, Mega scizor especially.

I do forsee bug being a good bit easier with some powerful options, I just feel some of them are in a strange spot in the late game. Most of the bug types are rather brittle and I feel like for certain fights it really helps to have a wall. The two top bugs imo are heracross and scizor, but it just REALLY hurts that they each have a 4x weakness. I think they are technical enough that you can overcome most obstacles with the right planning, but for the MOST part I would put them above some of the top contenders on the list.

I will probably update the list more as I complete more runs, but I honestly get the feeling that it is pretty spot on, maybe just a few switches in position here and there as I work my way through.

[Whitelight]

On 5/14/2022 at 9:53 AM, Cassandra said:

I haven't done most of these monotypes, but I also did not find Ice that tricky, to be honest – you get a lot of decent mid-game options after the third badge (though things are sort of rough beforehand), and though Titania is pretty challenging, the rest of the late game is largely smooth sailing. Ciel, Adrienn, Amaria, Saphira, and even Hardy are eminently beatable, although the postgame (which I only beat using my Ice monotype as of now, so I have no real sense as to whether or not it was easier or more difficult than using other types) did give me a few difficulties. Dragon works somewhat well late in the game, but the pure suffering that is the early game kind of has me agree with the ranking. Water was ... alright, I guess. It definitely gives you a lot of options, but I found myself switching around my team so much that I did not feel like I was doing a proper monotype run. I am more used to trying to build an all-around decent team with only some slight modifications in, say, movesets for specific battles.

I think for me the main issue I ran into with ice was just a few "roadblock" pokemon, specifically the ones that are "only" weak to fire, or that you are really supposed to use fire to beat. The only other problem I had was just lack of options. You have a FEW but your team is pretty locked in and the pokemon you don't have the tools to face can be pretty rough. Also, ice is one of the most fragile types imo due to the base Stats and weaknesses. The new content in E19 (no spoilers) was fairly rough I found just because the glass cannon playstyle of ice could have major trouble if you couldn't wipe things before they set up (I know I've posted this multiple times now but mega scyther in particular is the bane of my existence) especially when he gets off a Swords dance and just bullet punches through your whole team lol

[Whitelight]

23 hours ago, Kamado said:

Fiore Gauntlet. No surprise since my team I think sucks as. I don't plan my teams in detail like others though

 

Yeah that part is definitely a good size hurdle. If you want some advice you can post your team, but I definitely understand too if you wanna go it solo. The challenge can be frustrating but super rewarding too when you clear a battle you've been stuck on for a while!

[Kamado]

11 hours ago, Whitelight said:

Yeah that part is definitely a good size hurdle. If you want some advice you can post your team, but I definitely understand too if you wanna go it solo. The challenge can be frustrating but super rewarding too when you clear a battle you've been stuck on for a while!

I just got past it. Currently at Devon fighting arc light.

[Cassandra]

22 hours ago, Whitelight said:

I think for me the main issue I ran into with ice was just a few "roadblock" pokemon, specifically the ones that are "only" weak to fire, or that you are really supposed to use fire to beat. The only other problem I had was just lack of options. You have a FEW but your team is pretty locked in and the pokemon you don't have the tools to face can be pretty rough. Also, ice is one of the most fragile types imo due to the base Stats and weaknesses. The new content in E19 (no spoilers) was fairly rough I found just because the glass cannon playstyle of ice could have major trouble if you couldn't wipe things before they set up (I know I've posted this multiple times now but mega scyther in particular is the bane of my existence) especially when he gets off a Swords dance and just bullet punches through your whole team lol

Fair enough – Mega Scizor is definitely a major roadblock, and there is no bulletproof recipe against it. Cloyster can deal with it after setting up, but if Scizor gets a free turn through any means (either through bad timing or through a seed), the battle is essentially lost. A favorite addition of mine from E19 is the Defense boost Ice-types receive under hail on the Icy Field and the Snowy Mountain, which dramatically improves exactly these kinds of match-ups; still, that is a fairly niche context that won't help you one bit against, say, Titania. I disagree with your claim of a lack of options, though – I might just have a different approach to monotype runs in that I usually just stay with one fixed team, and though I do add new team members once they become available, I don't generally have members in rotation; when I struggle with a battle, I try to do tweaks around the edges by changing things like held items. Still, while Ice is, I think, the rarest type and therefore doesn't have quite as many options as other types, it definitely has enough options for me to try out quite different team constellations over multiple Ice monotype runs in Reborn and Rejuvenation (certainly enough for it to remain interesting to me). The addition of Aurora Veil (which a lot of monotype teams do not have viable access to) also somewhat compensates for the inherent frailty of the typing in my view.

You probably have a much better grasp of the bigger picture than I do, given that I have done barely over a third of these monotypes between Reborn and Rejuvenation. Given that Ice is probably the monotype I have the most experience with right now, the fact that I am so used to strategizing within this paradigm may cloud my judgement – everything is easy when you're used to it, after all. Still, I think the late game of Reborn in particular is very friendly towards Ice-types, and I can definitely say from personal experience that I found Dragon a lot harder.

[Whitelight]

8 hours ago, Cassandra said:

Fair enough – Mega Scizor is definitely a major roadblock, and there is no bulletproof recipe against it. Cloyster can deal with it after setting up, but if Scizor gets a free turn through any means (either through bad timing or through a seed), the battle is essentially lost. A favorite addition of mine from E19 is the Defense boost Ice-types receive under hail on the Icy Field and the Snowy Mountain, which dramatically improves exactly these kinds of match-ups; still, that is a fairly niche context that won't help you one bit against, say, Titania. I disagree with your claim of a lack of options, though – I might just have a different approach to monotype runs in that I usually just stay with one fixed team, and though I do add new team members once they become available, I don't generally have members in rotation; when I struggle with a battle, I try to do tweaks around the edges by changing things like held items. Still, while Ice is, I think, the rarest type and therefore doesn't have quite as many options as other types, it definitely has enough options for me to try out quite different team constellations over multiple Ice monotype runs in Reborn and Rejuvenation (certainly enough for it to remain interesting to me). The addition of Aurora Veil (which a lot of monotype teams do not have viable access to) also somewhat compensates for the inherent frailty of the typing in my view.

You probably have a much better grasp of the bigger picture than I do, given that I have done barely over a third of these monotypes between Reborn and Rejuvenation. Given that Ice is probably the monotype I have the most experience with right now, the fact that I am so used to strategizing within this paradigm may cloud my judgement – everything is easy when you're used to it, after all. Still, I think the late game of Reborn in particular is very friendly towards Ice-types, and I can definitely say from personal experience that I found Dragon a lot harder.

I really value your input! It's cool to hear from people who are more invested into a certain type and have mastered a lot of different strategies surrounding a type. It's completely possible that I have some bias as well considering my favorite type has always been Steel. I think for me the real struggle for endgame is that Stat totals become super important. This may be going WAYYYY too far in the weeds but here is a section of notes I had been making for typed runs. It reads (type, number of weaknesses, avg base Stat total, #of total pokemon) 

Spoiler

Fire 3x- 539.92 avg, 76 mon
Fighting 2x- 535.70 avg, 70 mon
Water 2x- 513.75 avg, 146 mon
Flying 3x- 517.95b avg, 106 mon
Poison 3x- 512.84 avg, 74 mon
Ground 3x- 516.29 avg, 70 mon
Psychic 3x- 558.1 avg, 98 mon
Dark 3x- 533.15 avg, 69 mon
Steel 3x- 552.31 avg, 66 mon

The readout for ice and a few others are missing, but the info for Ice is :

Ice 4x- 518.14 avg, 51 mon

 

Just the way pokemon math works means if you have a low base defensive Stat on a pokemon for example, it is much more realistic that they could get one shot from a non super effective, or even non STAB non super effective move. The Stat totals for ice types aren't ABYSMAL, but they are lacking in the numbers department which makes it a little bit hard to cover weaknesses, which they have a higher than average number of.

 

However you do make a very valid point that there is more to pokemon than Stat totals, especially in Reborn where field types exist, as well as other special interactions or tweaks. I agree that Ice has got some love on a few fields, and that certainly makes them more viable.

As for having more difficulty with dragon, I definitely struggled in the early game when you are STARVED for different pokemon, and in the late game things like ice spear hurt SUPER badly considering garchomp, flygon, salamence, noivern, dragonite, alolan exxeggutor, and altaria ALL have a 4x weakness to ice. However, I found that with their super high Stat totals and the fact that dragon type moves are not resisted by many types at all and would get STAB, it was easy to brute force most of the game with simple tactics like dragon dance/dragon claw haxorus.

All in all though, I think ice run is definitely an achievable and viable run, realistically I think every mono type run is, I would just put in on a higher pedestal in terms of needing to have the proper set up (like how you mentioned Aurora Veil covering some of the frailty) and that can be tricky, especially with all the wacky hijinks Reborn can throw at you.

 

[Cassandra]

13 hours ago, Whitelight said:

I really value your input! It's cool to hear from people who are more invested into a certain type and have mastered a lot of different strategies surrounding a type. It's completely possible that I have some bias as well considering my favorite type has always been Steel. I think for me the real struggle for endgame is that Stat totals become super important. This may be going WAYYYY too far in the weeds but here is a section of notes I had been making for typed runs. It reads (type, number of weaknesses, avg base Stat total, #of total pokemon) 

  Reveal hidden contents

Fire 3x- 539.92 avg, 76 mon
Fighting 2x- 535.70 avg, 70 mon
Water 2x- 513.75 avg, 146 mon
Flying 3x- 517.95b avg, 106 mon
Poison 3x- 512.84 avg, 74 mon
Ground 3x- 516.29 avg, 70 mon
Psychic 3x- 558.1 avg, 98 mon
Dark 3x- 533.15 avg, 69 mon
Steel 3x- 552.31 avg, 66 mon

The readout for ice and a few others are missing, but the info for Ice is :

Ice 4x- 518.14 avg, 51 mon

 

Just the way pokemon math works means if you have a low base defensive Stat on a pokemon for example, it is much more realistic that they could get one shot from a non super effective, or even non STAB non super effective move. The Stat totals for ice types aren't ABYSMAL, but they are lacking in the numbers department which makes it a little bit hard to cover weaknesses, which they have a higher than average number of.

 

However you do make a very valid point that there is more to pokemon than Stat totals, especially in Reborn where field types exist, as well as other special interactions or tweaks. I agree that Ice has got some love on a few fields, and that certainly makes them more viable.

As for having more difficulty with dragon, I definitely struggled in the early game when you are STARVED for different pokemon, and in the late game things like ice spear hurt SUPER badly considering garchomp, flygon, salamence, noivern, dragonite, alolan exxeggutor, and altaria ALL have a 4x weakness to ice. However, I found that with their super high Stat totals and the fact that dragon type moves are not resisted by many types at all and would get STAB, it was easy to brute force most of the game with simple tactics like dragon dance/dragon claw haxorus.

All in all though, I think ice run is definitely an achievable and viable run, realistically I think every mono type run is, I would just put in on a higher pedestal in terms of needing to have the proper set up (like how you mentioned Aurora Veil covering some of the frailty) and that can be tricky, especially with all the wacky hijinks Reborn can throw at you.

 

The appreciation is mutual – and as a further admission of bias, while I may be a fellow Steel-type enthusiast (my favorite type is either Fairy or Ice, and Steel would probably be my number three), both Fire and Fighting are types I have never particularly cared about and only made occasional use of on different monotypes, meaning that I have a pretty poor grasp of both. Your point of stat totals is definitely fair, though they certainly don't tell the whole story (which I am sure you are aware of; Bug is abysmal by Base Stat Totals but is probably on the easier side in terms of monotype runs, for example) – Frosmoth carried me through most of my Ice monotype (and a fair portion of my Bug monotype) on intense Rejuvenation, and though it obviously isn't available in Reborn, I would still like to use it as an example of a Pokemon there is more than meets the eye to. First of all, its Ice Scales ability literally doubles (or, I guess, by the way that stat calculations work, more than doubles) its Special Defense stat, and a fantastic support movepool with options such as Tailwind, Wide Guard (especially crucial in Doubles gyms with Rock Sliders and Heat Wavers going off), and Defog (not that helpful against Stealth Rock, but very useful against Sticky Web users) plus very early Quiver Dance access made it an offensive and defensive staple of both monotype teams I had make use of it. Ice is the only type to get its own weather that will damage literally all other types outside of a handful of Overcoat and Magic Guard users, for example, and in my most recent monotype run through the postgame of Reborn, I relied on hail even more than I normally do and actually had two hail users in my party. Blizzard and Subzero Slammer are also fantastic moves to have in Reborn, as it allows for the transformation of some unfavorable fields (for instance, after getting rid of her pesky terrain with Subzero Slammer, all of Saphira's team except for Mega Charizard X went down handily, which made her one of the easiest leaders to me even though I could definitely imagine her becoming a problem with the Dragon Dance boost and all; Amaria's strategy is also almost completely nullified through one use of Blizzard.). I think Ice does a decent job covering for its weaknesses in these kinds of strategic areas, though I will grant that this makes it more support-reliant and less flexible.

As for Dragon, I feel the Dragon type is just very one-dimensional. You get little more than offensive options (like, I actually ran a rain team on my Dragon-type run, and not having any direct weather setters meant I was extremely reliant on Goodra), and though Dragon Dance is a fantastic boosting move, brute-forcing it without any support options can also be very tricky, and priority or Sturdy/Focus Sash users can ruin everything. And lastly, Dragon-types get very little field synergy – the Dragon's Den is great but cannot be summoned and will be destroyed by Subzero Slammer or two uses of a move as basic as Surf, the boost on the Fairy Tale Field is more than compensated by the power boost for Fairy- and Steel-type attacks (which made Titania even more of a nightmare on my Dragon-type than my Ice-type run), and I guess you have the Big Top Arena, which boosts Dragon Dance, but that is basically it. These are problems Ice doesn't have – sure, while the abysmal defensive typing also somewhat relegates you to offense, options like Cloyster allow you to ignore Sturdy/Focus Sash, Aurora Veil makes you a lot less vulnerable to priority if you do try to sweep a whole party, and so on and so forth.

Edited May 17, 2022 by Cassandra
completed a sentence I had left incomplete; corrected erroneous spelling

[Whitelight]

2 hours ago, Cassandra said:

The appreciation is mutual – and as a further admission of bias, while I may be a fellow Steel-type enthusiast (my favorite type is either Fairy or Ice, and Steel would probably be my number three), both Fire and Fighting are types I have never particularly cared about and only made occasional use of on different monotypes, meaning that I have a pretty poor grasp of both. Your point of stat totals is definitely fair, though they certainly don't tell the whole story (which I am sure you are aware of; Bug is abysmal by Base Stat Totals but is probably on the easier side in terms of monotype runs, for example) – Frosmoth carried me through most of my Ice monotype (and a fair portion of my Bug monotype) on intense Rejuvenation, and though it obviously isn't available in Reborn, I would still like to use it as an example of a Pokemon there is more than meets the eye to. First of all, its Ice Scales ability literally doubles (or, I guess, by the way that stat calculations work, more than doubles) its Special Defense stat, and a fantastic support movepool with options such as Tailwind, Wide Guard (especially crucial in Doubles gyms with Rock Sliders and Heat Wavers going off), and Defog (not that helpful against Stealth Rock, but very useful against Sticky Web users) plus very early Quiver Dance access made it an offensive and defensive staple of both monotype teams I had make use of it. Ice is the only type to get its own weather that will damage literally all other types outside of a handful of Overcoat and Magic Guard users, for example, and in my most recent monotype run through the postgame of Reborn, I relied on hail even more than I normally do and actually had two hail users in my party. Blizzard and Subzero Slammer are also fantastic moves to have in Reborn, as it allows for the transformation of some unfavorable fields (for instance, after getting rid of her pesky terrain with Subzero Slammer, all of Saphira's team except for Mega Charizard X went down handily, which made her one of the easiest leaders to me even though I could definitely imagine her becoming a problem with the Dragon Dance boost and all; Amaria's strategy is also almost completely nullified through one use of Blizzard.). I think Ice does a decent job covering for its weaknesses in these kinds of strategic areas, though I will grant that this makes it more support-reliant and less flexible.

As for Dragon, I feel the Dragon type is just very one-dimensional. You get little more than offensive options (like, I actually ran a rain team on my Dragon-type run, and not having any direct weather setters meant I was extremely reliant on Goodra), and though Dragon Dance is a fantastic boosting move, brute-forcing it without any support options can also be very tricky, and priority or Sturdy/Focus Sash users can ruin everything. And lastly, Dragon-types get very little field synergy – the Dragon's Den is great but cannot be summoned and will be destroyed by Subzero Slammer or two uses of a move as basic as Surf, the boost on the Fairy Tale Field is more than compensated by the power boost for Fairy- and Steel-type attacks (which made Titania even more of a nightmare on my Dragon-type than my Ice-type run), and I guess you have the Big Top Arena, which boosts Dragon Dance, but that is basically it. These are problems Ice doesn't have – sure, while the abysmal defensive typing also somewhat relegates you to offense, options like Cloyster allow you to ignore Sturdy/Focus Sash, Aurora Veil makes you a lot less vulnerable to priority if you do try to sweep a whole party, and so on and so forth.

You make some good points, but to be fair the fact Frosmoth ISNT in Reborn is one of the reasons I feel that Ice type is a bit restricted in choices. Other than specific fringe cases, you usually wouldn't take mono types on your mono run (for example arcanine is a phenomenal pokemon, but you wouldn't want to take him on a mono fire run because you already have so much firepower, pun sort of intended). So ignoring mono ice types, it leaves you with dual type coverage for steel, Psychic, fairy, ground, flying, water, ghost, rock, grass, dark, and electric. That seems pretty good on face value with 11 of the remaining 17 types available to choose from. However, diving deeper into it, some of the options such as flying for instance are only covered by a weaker pokemon, such as delibird. Now I don't wanna be a delibird hater, but I definitely wouldn't think of taking that mon to the endgame. Even other pokemon such as crabominable I find hard to justify due to its poor speed stat of just 43 paired with having six 2x weaknesses. Personally in my run I felt highly dependant on opening with alolan ninetales to set up hail and Aurora Veil, which while strategically beneficial to the battle usually left ninetales crippled by whatever pokemon the opponent threw out first, or in the worst case scenario allowed a pokemon a free set up turn in preparation to sweep. I don't think that Ice was BAD, just very technical. I found that once certain events happened that hindered my "setup" phase of fights, it was better to reload since the battle was pretty much lost. However I will say Dragon definitely had its fair share of issues just the raw stat totals helped MOST of the Dragon's take enough of a hit to wear a few punches before going down. Also, with some of the speedier Dragon's you could at least chip in damage before they fell. I definitely did feel some pain around Focus sashes on Dragon, and ice had it beat with being able to "mop up" a Focus sashed/Sturdy pokemon with damage from hail, however Sturdy didn't give me too much trouble since haxorus could blow through it with mold breaker. 

I also highly agree with your point that Bug has ATROCIOUS stat totals, which is why I originally had it MUCH further down on the list, but I will say the argument for speed boost scoliopede with protect Baton passing into a sweeper such as scizor or heracross DID move me to push it up a bit on the scale. I find that those interactions with Bug types though are a LITTLE more solid than the ice ones, mostly due to the fact that there is very little that can interact with them. Ice can be hindered by a few things though such as if a pokemon with sunny day or cloud 9 hits the battlefield after you set up hail. 

I do however appreciate that things like shell smash cloyster are an absolute monster, but in my experience the teams towards the end game usually have at least one priority move user, and with cloysters shell smashing lowering its defense, it is much easier to one shot with a well placed bullet punch. 

I guess what I'm saying is that there is definitely room to perfect an ice mono battle, and when you do it IS super rewarding (nothing like alolan sandblast Slush rushing through a whole team!!!) But I think there are some other types that open up either more viable options with better stat totals or that have more divergent strategies.

I am curious though, do you you think that Ice deserves to be moved up the list, and if so, where would you see it going? 

 

[Cassandra]

29 minutes ago, Whitelight said:

You make some good points, but to be fair the fact Frosmoth ISNT in Reborn is one of the reasons I feel that Ice type is a bit restricted in choices. Other than specific fringe cases, you usually wouldn't take mono types on your mono run (for example arcanine is a phenomenal pokemon, but you wouldn't want to take him on a mono fire run because you already have so much firepower, pun sort of intended). So ignoring mono ice types, it leaves you with dual type coverage for steel, Psychic, fairy, ground, flying, water, ghost, rock, grass, dark, and electric. That seems pretty good on face value with 11 of the remaining 17 types available to choose from. However, diving deeper into it, some of the options such as flying for instance are only covered by a weaker pokemon, such as delibird. Now I don't wanna be a delibird hater, but I definitely wouldn't think of taking that mon to the endgame. Even other pokemon such as crabominable I find hard to justify due to its poor speed stat of just 43 paired with having six 2x weaknesses. Personally in my run I felt highly dependant on opening with alolan ninetales to set up hail and Aurora Veil, which while strategically beneficial to the battle usually left ninetales crippled by whatever pokemon the opponent threw out first, or in the worst case scenario allowed a pokemon a free set up turn in preparation to sweep. I don't think that Ice was BAD, just very technical. I found that once certain events happened that hindered my "setup" phase of fights, it was better to reload since the battle was pretty much lost. However I will say Dragon definitely had its fair share of issues just the raw stat totals helped MOST of the Dragon's take enough of a hit to wear a few punches before going down. Also, with some of the speedier Dragon's you could at least chip in damage before they fell. I definitely did feel some pain around Focus sashes on Dragon, and ice had it beat with being able to "mop up" a Focus sashed/Sturdy pokemon with damage from hail, however Sturdy didn't give me too much trouble since haxorus could blow through it with mold breaker. 

I also highly agree with your point that Bug has ATROCIOUS stat totals, which is why I originally had it MUCH further down on the list, but I will say the argument for speed boost scoliopede with protect Baton passing into a sweeper such as scizor or heracross DID move me to push it up a bit on the scale. I find that those interactions with Bug types though are a LITTLE more solid than the ice ones, mostly due to the fact that there is very little that can interact with them. Ice can be hindered by a few things though such as if a pokemon with sunny day or cloud 9 hits the battlefield after you set up hail. 

I do however appreciate that things like shell smash cloyster are an absolute monster, but in my experience the teams towards the end game usually have at least one priority move user, and with cloysters shell smashing lowering its defense, it is much easier to one shot with a well placed bullet punch. 

I guess what I'm saying is that there is definitely room to perfect an ice mono battle, and when you do it IS super rewarding (nothing like alolan sandblast Slush rushing through a whole team!!!) But I think there are some other types that open up either more viable options with better stat totals or that have more divergent strategies.

I am curious though, do you you think that Ice deserves to be moved up the list, and if so, where would you see it going? 

 

Yeah, I somewhat agree – I do feel that intense Rejuvenation is a step above Reborn in terms of difficulty, and I probably would have suffered a lot more without Frosmoth because it just provides so much support and offensive prowess in one. Your point about dual coverage is perfectly valid (though most of the options are, I would argue, pretty viable – Delibird may not be, and I am sort of agnostic on Rotom-F and Crabominable, but Alolan Sandslash, Jynx, Alolan Ninetales, Mamoswine, Cloyster/Walrein/Lapras, Froslass, Aurorus, Abomasnow, and Weavile are all members I have found extremely helpful on at least one run), but I also think they do a good enough job covering the Ice type's weaknesses, with the unfortunate exception of Mega Scizor (I have zero experience with Galarian Darmanitan because Rejuvenation also doesn't yet have it, but it might be of use in that regard). Particularly with options like Cloyster, which, when endowed with Rock Blast, has an offensive combination only resisted by a handful of Water-types, I don't feel like extensive STAB type coverage is crucially important. As for openings, my most common opener in this past run was actually probably Aurorus, which was much more effective than it had any right to be; unlike Ninetales, which is pretty passive (at least if you, like me, opt for a bulkier spread so it can play support more effectively), Aurorus has a good offensive presence and hazard access, though it also comes with two 4x weaknesses that can be a nasty surprise. Regardless of what happened, though, eight free turns of hail were always a very helpful start. Aurora Veil is definitely something I was somewhat over-reliant on, and fields such as the New World that did not let me set it up were not exactly my favorites. I usually tried setting up Aurora Veil just before going for a sweep, and at that point, I did not really care what happened to Ninetales. Cloyster especially is far less vulnerable to priority attacks with Aurora Veil up, which was crucial for the post-game. Opposing weather can definitely be annoying (as it can be on any weather-based team), which I guess I was not that bothered by because I had two hail users, meaning my weather would usually prevail in these situations (I personally never struggled with Cloud Nine, though, because it is such a rare ability).

As for Dragon-types, Mold Breaker Haxorus is, of course, a way of circumventing Sturdy that I didn't think of – still, it doesn't help against Focus Sashes. And while Dragon-types are often comparatively resilient, the lack of viable support (such as the aforementioned Aurora Veil) means that bulk cannot really be put to good use when faced with often insane field-boosted attacks.

I intentionally did not make any exact comments on the ranking – between Reborn and intense Rejuvenation, I have first-hand experience with seven of eighteen types, which would make a ranking consist of mostly conjecture on my part. For reference, I have done Ice, Dragon, Water, Steel, Fairy, Grass, and Bug; my opinions are as follows: Water, Steel and Fairy should probably be somewhere on the high end, and as a quick sidenote, I would also put Fairy higher still, especially with the broken terrain mechanics of Reborn. I would have both Ice and Bug somewhere around the middle (Ice is probably the most fun monotype in my view, but it is obviously more challenging than Water or Steel), and I would be open to putting Grass in that ballpark as well (I did monotype Grass in Rejuvenation, which doesn't have the terrain mechanics of Reborn that allow Grassy Terrain to just override any existing field). Dragon is probably well-placed.

[Whitelight]

16 hours ago, Cassandra said:

Yeah, I somewhat agree – I do feel that intense Rejuvenation is a step above Reborn in terms of difficulty, and I probably would have suffered a lot more without Frosmoth because it just provides so much support and offensive prowess in one. Your point about dual coverage is perfectly valid (though most of the options are, I would argue, pretty viable – Delibird may not be, and I am sort of agnostic on Rotom-F and Crabominable, but Alolan Sandslash, Jynx, Alolan Ninetales, Mamoswine, Cloyster/Walrein/Lapras, Froslass, Aurorus, Abomasnow, and Weavile are all members I have found extremely helpful on at least one run), but I also think they do a good enough job covering the Ice type's weaknesses, with the unfortunate exception of Mega Scizor (I have zero experience with Galarian Darmanitan because Rejuvenation also doesn't yet have it, but it might be of use in that regard). Particularly with options like Cloyster, which, when endowed with Rock Blast, has an offensive combination only resisted by a handful of Water-types, I don't feel like extensive STAB type coverage is crucially important. As for openings, my most common opener in this past run was actually probably Aurorus, which was much more effective than it had any right to be; unlike Ninetales, which is pretty passive (at least if you, like me, opt for a bulkier spread so it can play support more effectively), Aurorus has a good offensive presence and hazard access, though it also comes with two 4x weaknesses that can be a nasty surprise. Regardless of what happened, though, eight free turns of hail were always a very helpful start. Aurora Veil is definitely something I was somewhat over-reliant on, and fields such as the New World that did not let me set it up were not exactly my favorites. I usually tried setting up Aurora Veil just before going for a sweep, and at that point, I did not really care what happened to Ninetales. Cloyster especially is far less vulnerable to priority attacks with Aurora Veil up, which was crucial for the post-game. Opposing weather can definitely be annoying (as it can be on any weather-based team), which I guess I was not that bothered by because I had two hail users, meaning my weather would usually prevail in these situations (I personally never struggled with Cloud Nine, though, because it is such a rare ability).

As for Dragon-types, Mold Breaker Haxorus is, of course, a way of circumventing Sturdy that I didn't think of – still, it doesn't help against Focus Sashes. And while Dragon-types are often comparatively resilient, the lack of viable support (such as the aforementioned Aurora Veil) means that bulk cannot really be put to good use when faced with often insane field-boosted attacks.

I intentionally did not make any exact comments on the ranking – between Reborn and intense Rejuvenation, I have first-hand experience with seven of eighteen types, which would make a ranking consist of mostly conjecture on my part. For reference, I have done Ice, Dragon, Water, Steel, Fairy, Grass, and Bug; my opinions are as follows: Water, Steel and Fairy should probably be somewhere on the high end, and as a quick sidenote, I would also put Fairy higher still, especially with the broken terrain mechanics of Reborn. I would have both Ice and Bug somewhere around the middle (Ice is probably the most fun monotype in my view, but it is obviously more challenging than Water or Steel), and I would be open to putting Grass in that ballpark as well (I did monotype Grass in Rejuvenation, which doesn't have the terrain mechanics of Reborn that allow Grassy Terrain to just override any existing field). Dragon is probably well-placed.

I think you have really moved some of my opinions... I have not had really any experience with Rejuvenation (I have been putting it off completely until I feel like I have entirely experienced reborn). I personally didn't find too much use for jinx with her 6 weaknesses paired with a middling speed and low defenses, but I think into certain matchups she would do fine. I feel the same way about abomasnow and the 2 4x weaknesses on aurorus made it feel like a big liability. However,  you do bring up some great points about the general synergy and team building, and I can't deny that Ice type moves have some pretty great effects when used properly.

As for the dragon/Focus Sash problem, the way I usually solved it was to either take a hit or to have a Stealth Rock set up to tickle just enough to prevent the trigger.

I would say your points about the other types have definitely left an impression on me as well. I have done some swapping on my list to reflect the changes from your outlook plus a few changes of my own.

Spoiler

1. Fire

2. Fighting

3. Ground

4. Water

5. Dark

6. Flying

7. Fairy 

8. Steel

9. Ghost

10. Poison

11. Bug

12. Normal

13. Psychic

14. Grass

15. Ice

16. Rock

17. Dragon

18. Electric

 

 So discussing about the changes above, you have convinced me that there is enough utility in ice and team synergy to put it above Dragon, and also from my own experiences so far in my rock run I would say rock can be very powerful but they lack a lot in the special and special defense stats which make them kind of one dimensional. 

I also had been looking at potential team comps for the different runs and I ran into a bit of a shock when I saw how stacked Dark types actually were with some really nasty composition options, so I bumped them up a good bit. After looking a bit more into the Fairy type, of which I'm admittedly not super familiar, I bumped them up a good bit too.

I ended up bumping Steel down a few notches, because even though I'm loathe to admit it, they don't really have many beneficial field setting options unique to them and apart from their insane resistances, there are definitely some more impact full pokemon of different types. I bumped down ghost for much the same reasons as well... I have a soft spot for curse but it is not always the best move and due to the AIs ability to switch pokemon out may not always result in an enemy kill when it almost always results in your own pokemon getting KO'ed.

I also moved Poison down the list a good bit just because I think that while poisoning can be super effective, early game it can be difficult to set up and late game there are so many powerful options that unless you are revive spamming most of the time your team will be swept before having the chance to watch the Poison do its work.

 

 

Also, electric still sucks and takes the big L XD

[Cassandra]

9 hours ago, Whitelight said:

I think you have really moved some of my opinions... I have not had really any experience with Rejuvenation (I have been putting it off completely until I feel like I have entirely experienced reborn). I personally didn't find too much use for jinx with her 6 weaknesses paired with a middling speed and low defenses, but I think into certain matchups she would do fine. I feel the same way about abomasnow and the 2 4x weaknesses on aurorus made it feel like a big liability. However,  you do bring up some great points about the general synergy and team building, and I can't deny that Ice type moves have some pretty great effects when used properly.

As for the dragon/Focus Sash problem, the way I usually solved it was to either take a hit or to have a Stealth Rock set up to tickle just enough to prevent the trigger.

I would say your points about the other types have definitely left an impression on me as well. I have done some swapping on my list to reflect the changes from your outlook plus a few changes of my own.

  Hide contents

1. Fire

2. Fighting

3. Ground

4. Water

5. Dark

6. Flying

7. Fairy 

8. Steel

9. Ghost

10. Poison

11. Bug

12. Normal

13. Psychic

14. Grass

15. Ice

16. Rock

17. Dragon

18. Electric

 

 So discussing about the changes above, you have convinced me that there is enough utility in ice and team synergy to put it above Dragon, and also from my own experiences so far in my rock run I would say rock can be very powerful but they lack a lot in the special and special defense stats which make them kind of one dimensional. 

I also had been looking at potential team comps for the different runs and I ran into a bit of a shock when I saw how stacked Dark types actually were with some really nasty composition options, so I bumped them up a good bit. After looking a bit more into the Fairy type, of which I'm admittedly not super familiar, I bumped them up a good bit too.

I ended up bumping Steel down a few notches, because even though I'm loathe to admit it, they don't really have many beneficial field setting options unique to them and apart from their insane resistances, there are definitely some more impact full pokemon of different types. I bumped down ghost for much the same reasons as well... I have a soft spot for curse but it is not always the best move and due to the AIs ability to switch pokemon out may not always result in an enemy kill when it almost always results in your own pokemon getting KO'ed.

I also moved Poison down the list a good bit just because I think that while poisoning can be super effective, early game it can be difficult to set up and late game there are so many powerful options that unless you are revive spamming most of the time your team will be swept before having the chance to watch the Poison do its work.

 

 

Also, electric still sucks and takes the big L XD

Alright, so, I am going to start with some minor points and gradually move on to more central ones, culminating in another discussion of monotype difficulty that has given me a lot to think about (and hopefully, it will do the same for you).

So, Jynx was actually a permanent member of my Ice-type team for a very long time, and though I ditched it just before the League, I think that was an unwise choice on my part. Weavile, which I replaced it with, is nice and all, but it didn't have the strategic synergy with the rest of my team that Jynx had. Jynx is really held back by its lackluster Speed (if it had a base stat of, say, 115 instead of 95, it would be a lot better), but heavy investment and a Timid nature do help remedy the issue somewhat, and Jynx is a great choice in Doubles in particular because of its access to Lovely Kiss. A Double Battle strategy I sometimes ran during the mid-game was to lead with Aurora Veil, put one side to sleep with Lovely Kiss, bring out a sweeper, and then go for a sort of dual sweep with Nasty Plot Jynx on one side and another Pokemon on the other, the idea being that Jynx should at least be able to outspeed and put to sleep (if not take out) one side and its partner could handle the other. A variation of this strategy allowed me to beat Hardy on my first try, for example (Alolan Sandslash did most of the early work – taking out Mega Aerodactyl, among other things – and the beast that is Curse Avalugg against an entirely physically-based team cleaned up the rest. Jynx was crucial in setting things up here.). And if I had kept Jynx for longer, it would have made Laura and Bennett (which was actually the hardest of the six Elite Four/Champion battles for my Ice monotype) a lot less daunting, and that's not even talking about some of the psychotic post-game Double Battles (the Darkrai quest in tier 5 comes to mind ...) that Jynx would have made a lot easier. So yeah, I think Jynx is a lot better than you give it credit for, being able to spread status whilst also potentially becoming an offensive threat with Nasty Plot. Its bulk is indeed pitiful, but Aurora Veil can remedy that issue a bit.

I agree that Abomasnow is a very niche pick – one weakness of the Ice-type that I am fully willing to grant is that it has far too few megas to choose from. Mega Abomasnow is very slow, has a ton of weaknesses, and because Reborn uses Gen VII movesets, its movepool is also a lot worse than in Rejuvenation (where I did actually put it to good use – both as a permanent Ice-type pick and as a niche pick for specific battles on my Grass monotype); among other things, I think it doesn't even get Aurora Veil. Its mega ability is also very disappointing, given that its Mega Stone prevents it from holding an Icy Rock (meaning its use as a hail setter if you are inclined to build a team around hail diminishes, and you will probably need a second weather setter). Abomasnow is good at countering Water-types, but that is essentially it. Mega Glalie is decent enough, has a fair Speed tier with Jolly nature, and does have good offensive presence (wreaking havoc with a field-boosted Refrigerate Return against Elias was super satisfying, for example), but it doesn't even remotely hold a candle to the megas other types offer (like Salamence for the aforementioned Dragon type, for example). Once it becomes available in Rejuvenation, I think I will go for Lapras as my mega pick (Rejuvenation turns all G-Max forms into megas), which actually has excellent stats that make a Dragon Dance set viable (which I am super excited to try out) and a good movepool (though unfortunately a pretty useless ability for hail teams).

 

As for your changes to the ranking, I think they are fair – I wanted to ask (without necessarily suggesting a change – I am too inexperienced for that) why Dark is so high, given that I also don't see that much overarching strategy for that type (the synergy with a lot of fields is definitely a major point in favor of it, though). I am going to trust you on Fire and Fighting, given that they are probably the last monotypes I am going to try because I just don't care that much for either type, but Ground and Water both have clear defensive and offensive qualities, a plethora of options, and obvious weather plays that probably make them some of the easiest monotypes. Something similar goes for Flying (which a previous commenter has already spoken about), Fairy, and Steel, and your reasons for bumping Steel down a bit are definitely understandable (I heard that some fights – like the Lumi/Eve fight on the Inverse Field – are insane with a Steel monotype. I did my Steel monotype in Rejuvenation, which actually has a gym battle on the Inverse Field against the Rock-type leader that was obviously really hard because Steel just suddenly became the worst type by a mile with a whopping ten weaknesses, and the seed applying Normalize to the user and turning it into a super-effective titan against me was the bane of my existence, so it could be worse, I guess.). Obviously, since that is what I have been arguing for, I also agree with you putting Ice higher and Dragon lower. I really appreciate your willingness to discuss the rankings and alter your list accordingly, by the way.

 

What I really wanted to get into, though, is something that transpired on the Reborn subreddit (where I am more active than on this forum) today – someone posted a tier list of monotype runs that is very different from what we (as in, the collective of commenters in this thread) came up with, and it inspired a lot of rather intense discussion. OP made five different tiers – basically the same, slightly harder, moderately harder, much harder, and almost impossible compared to a normal playthrough. I would like to make some comments about this – just to add a bit of confusion, though, the almost impossible tier is at the top, and so, for the purposes of commenting on that tier list, higher means harder, and lower means easier (which is, of course, the opposite of the rankings in this thread).

• Ice is in the much harder tier, which I actually initially thought was fair – based on the main game, I would rank it as being moderately or even just slightly harder (in other words, one or two tiers lower than where OP put it), but one crucial difference between this thread and the tier list linked is that the tier list takes both the main game and the postgame into account, and because Ice gives you very few new team options throughout the postgame (there are no Ice-type UBs, and Kyurem is a beast, but it can only be acquired in Tier 6 – in other words, almost at the end), I thought it was fair to put it a bit higher in terms of difficulty. Some commenters have convinced me that it should be lower, however, echoing my observation that the main game is pretty favorable towards Ice-types. One of them even argued that Ice should be ranked basically the same, but I don't think I would go that far – that would put it on par with Steel, Water, and Fairy, which I think are certainly quite a bit easier and which have a lot more post-game options going for them. It is interesting how much views of Ice as a monotype diverge, though – one commenter also mentioned being stuck with their Ice-type run. I think moderately harder would be more fitting, and I would be open to slightly harder (note that more than half of all types are in the bottom two tiers – in other words, ranking Ice slightly harder would put it in the middle in terms of difficulty).
• Dragon is in the slightly harder tier, and I think we can both agree that it should not be anywhere near that (at least from what we have experienced). What looks to me like a decent postgame would probably keep it below the almost impossible tier, though.
• Electric is in the slightly harder tier as well, which is in stark contrast to you ranking it dead last. I am not as hopeless with Electric-types as I am with, say, Fire- or Fighting-types, but I have no monotype experience with them either, so I will not weigh in one way or another. Still, as a lackey, it seemed counterintuitive to me that a monotype with just one weakness (albeit arguably the most common attacking type) and the absolutely broken Electric Terrain would be that bad. Could you elaborate on that a bit?
• Grass is in the almost impossible tier, which, especially considering the postgame and Grassy Terrain, I certainly disagree with. Grass is definitely on the harder side, but not among the two most challenging; I think ranking it fourteenth as you did it is more accurate.
• Psychic is deemed basically the same in the tier list, which, while I have no experience in this area, I could imagine being a perspective with some merit. Psychic comes with Psychic Terrain, which overrides all existing fields except the New World (this is my billionth time saying that I think Reborn's terrain mechanics are broken, I guess), and it also gives you Light Screen/Reflect very early on, a lot of decent fully evolved choices that can ravage through the mid-game, and a plethora of choices that allows for diverse strategies. I can personally attest from non-monotype experience that Magic Guard Sigilyph is an absolute beast if it is able to set up Cosmic Powers (which, with Light Screen and Reflect, is certainly realistic), for example.

I was certainly moved by some of the tier list, as well as the comments that ensued; definitely feel free to check it out. It is actually really interesting that two discussions of monotype difficulty conducted independently from one another could yield such different results. Note, however, that two independent rankings both had Rock near the bottom and Fairy, Fighting, Flying, Ground, Steel, and Water near the top, which suggests that these perspectives have a lot of merit.

Edited May 19, 2022 by Cassandra
actually fell victim to a mix-up courtesy of the source of confusion I mentioned – fixed that

[Whitelight]

13 hours ago, Cassandra said:

Alright, so, I am going to start with some minor points and gradually move on to more central ones, culminating in another discussion of monotype difficulty that has given me a lot to think about (and hopefully, it will do the same for you).

So, Jynx was actually a permanent member of my Ice-type team for a very long time, and though I ditched it just before the League, I think that was an unwise choice on my part. Weavile, which I replaced it with, is nice and all, but it didn't have the strategic synergy with the rest of my team that Jynx had. Jynx is really held back by its lackluster Speed (if it had a base stat of, say, 115 instead of 95, it would be a lot better), but heavy investment and a Timid nature do help remedy the issue somewhat, and Jynx is a great choice in Doubles in particular because of its access to Lovely Kiss. A Double Battle strategy I sometimes ran during the mid-game was to lead with Aurora Veil, put one side to sleep with Lovely Kiss, bring out a sweeper, and then go for a sort of dual sweep with Nasty Plot Jynx on one side and another Pokemon on the other, the idea being that Jynx should at least be able to outspeed and put to sleep (if not take out) one side and its partner could handle the other. A variation of this strategy allowed me to beat Hardy on my first try, for example (Alolan Sandslash did most of the early work – taking out Mega Aerodactyl, among other things – and the beast that is Curse Avalugg against an entirely physically-based team cleaned up the rest. Jynx was crucial in setting things up here.). And if I had kept Jynx for longer, it would have made Laura and Bennett (which was actually the hardest of the six Elite Four/Champion battles for my Ice monotype) a lot less daunting, and that's not even talking about some of the psychotic post-game Double Battles (the Darkrai quest in tier 5 comes to mind ...) that Jynx would have made a lot easier. So yeah, I think Jynx is a lot better than you give it credit for, being able to spread status whilst also potentially becoming an offensive threat with Nasty Plot. Its bulk is indeed pitiful, but Aurora Veil can remedy that issue a bit.

I agree that Abomasnow is a very niche pick – one weakness of the Ice-type that I am fully willing to grant is that it has far too few megas to choose from. Mega Abomasnow is very slow, has a ton of weaknesses, and because Reborn uses Gen VII movesets, its movepool is also a lot worse than in Rejuvenation (where I did actually put it to good use – both as a permanent Ice-type pick and as a niche pick for specific battles on my Grass monotype); among other things, I think it doesn't even get Aurora Veil. Its mega ability is also very disappointing, given that its Mega Stone prevents it from holding an Icy Rock (meaning its use as a hail setter if you are inclined to build a team around hail diminishes, and you will probably need a second weather setter). Abomasnow is good at countering Water-types, but that is essentially it. Mega Glalie is decent enough, has a fair Speed tier with Jolly nature, and does have good offensive presence (wreaking havoc with a field-boosted Refrigerate Return against Elias was super satisfying, for example), but it doesn't even remotely hold a candle to the megas other types offer (like Salamence for the aforementioned Dragon type, for example). Once it becomes available in Rejuvenation, I think I will go for Lapras as my mega pick (Rejuvenation turns all G-Max forms into megas), which actually has excellent stats that make a Dragon Dance set viable (which I am super excited to try out) and a good movepool (though unfortunately a pretty useless ability for hail teams).

 

As for your changes to the ranking, I think they are fair – I wanted to ask (without necessarily suggesting a change – I am too inexperienced for that) why Dark is so high, given that I also don't see that much overarching strategy for that type (the synergy with a lot of fields is definitely a major point in favor of it, though). I am going to trust you on Fire and Fighting, given that they are probably the last monotypes I am going to try because I just don't care that much for either type, but Ground and Water both have clear defensive and offensive qualities, a plethora of options, and obvious weather plays that probably make them some of the easiest monotypes. Something similar goes for Flying (which a previous commenter has already spoken about), Fairy, and Steel, and your reasons for bumping Steel down a bit are definitely understandable (I heard that some fights – like the Lumi/Eve fight on the Inverse Field – are insane with a Steel monotype. I did my Steel monotype in Rejuvenation, which actually has a gym battle on the Inverse Field against the Rock-type leader that was obviously really hard because Steel just suddenly became the worst type by a mile with a whopping ten weaknesses, and the seed applying Normalize to the user and turning it into a super-effective titan against me was the bane of my existence, so it could be worse, I guess.). Obviously, since that is what I have been arguing for, I also agree with you putting Ice higher and Dragon lower. I really appreciate your willingness to discuss the rankings and alter your list accordingly, by the way.

 

What I really wanted to get into, though, is something that transpired on the Reborn subreddit (where I am more active than on this forum) today – someone posted a tier list of monotype runs that is very different from what we (as in, the collective of commenters in this thread) came up with, and it inspired a lot of rather intense discussion. OP made five different tiers – basically the same, slightly harder, moderately harder, much harder, and almost impossible compared to a normal playthrough. I would like to make some comments about this – just to add a bit of confusion, though, the almost impossible tier is at the top, and so, for the purposes of commenting on that tier list, higher means harder, and lower means easier (which is, of course, the opposite of the rankings in this thread).

• Ice is in the much harder tier, which I actually initially thought was fair – based on the main game, I would rank it as being moderately or even just slightly harder (in other words, one or two tiers lower than where OP put it), but one crucial difference between this thread and the tier list linked is that the tier list takes both the main game and the postgame into account, and because Ice gives you very few new team options throughout the postgame (there are no Ice-type UBs, and Kyurem is a beast, but it can only be acquired in Tier 6 – in other words, almost at the end), I thought it was fair to put it a bit higher in terms of difficulty. Some commenters have convinced me that it should be lower, however, echoing my observation that the main game is pretty favorable towards Ice-types. One of them even argued that Ice should be ranked basically the same, but I don't think I would go that far – that would put it on par with Steel, Water, and Fairy, which I think are certainly quite a bit easier and which have a lot more post-game options going for them. It is interesting how much views of Ice as a monotype diverge, though – one commenter also mentioned being stuck with their Ice-type run. I think moderately harder would be more fitting, and I would be open to slightly harder (note that more than half of all types are in the bottom two tiers – in other words, ranking Ice slightly harder would put it in the middle in terms of difficulty).
• Dragon is in the slightly harder tier, and I think we can both agree that it should not be anywhere near that (at least from what we have experienced). What looks to me like a decent postgame would probably keep it below the almost impossible tier, though.
• Electric is in the slightly harder tier as well, which is in stark contrast to you ranking it dead last. I am not as hopeless with Electric-types as I am with, say, Fire- or Fighting-types, but I have no monotype experience with them either, so I will not weigh in one way or another. Still, as a lackey, it seemed counterintuitive to me that a monotype with just one weakness (albeit arguably the most common attacking type) and the absolutely broken Electric Terrain would be that bad. Could you elaborate on that a bit?
• Grass is in the almost impossible tier, which, especially considering the postgame and Grassy Terrain, I certainly disagree with. Grass is definitely on the harder side, but not among the two most challenging; I think ranking it fourteenth as you did it is more accurate.
• Psychic is deemed basically the same in the tier list, which, while I have no experience in this area, I could imagine being a perspective with some merit. Psychic comes with Psychic Terrain, which overrides all existing fields except the New World (this is my billionth time saying that I think Reborn's terrain mechanics are broken, I guess), and it also gives you Light Screen/Reflect very early on, a lot of decent fully evolved choices that can ravage through the mid-game, and a plethora of choices that allows for diverse strategies. I can personally attest from non-monotype experience that Magic Guard Sigilyph is an absolute beast if it is able to set up Cosmic Powers (which, with Light Screen and Reflect, is certainly realistic), for example.

I was certainly moved by some of the tier list, as well as the comments that ensued; definitely feel free to check it out. It is actually really interesting that two discussions of monotype difficulty conducted independently from one another could yield such different results. Note, however, that two independent rankings both had Rock near the bottom and Fairy, Fighting, Flying, Ground, Steel, and Water near the top, which suggests that these perspectives have a lot of merit.

1 hour ago, Cassandra said:

Alright, so, I am going to start with some minor points and gradually move on to more central ones, culminating in another discussion of monotype difficulty that has given me a lot to think about (and hopefully, it will do the same for you).

So, Jynx was actually a permanent member of my Ice-type team for a very long time, and though I ditched it just before the League, I think that was an unwise choice on my part. Weavile, which I replaced it with, is nice and all, but it didn't have the strategic synergy with the rest of my team that Jynx had. Jynx is really held back by its lackluster Speed (if it had a base stat of, say, 115 instead of 95, it would be a lot better), but heavy investment and a Timid nature do help remedy the issue somewhat, and Jynx is a great choice in Doubles in particular because of its access to Lovely Kiss. A Double Battle strategy I sometimes ran during the mid-game was to lead with Aurora Veil, put one side to sleep with Lovely Kiss, bring out a sweeper, and then go for a sort of dual sweep with Nasty Plot Jynx on one side and another Pokemon on the other, the idea being that Jynx should at least be able to outspeed and put to sleep (if not take out) one side and its partner could handle the other. A variation of this strategy allowed me to beat Hardy on my first try, for example (Alolan Sandslash did most of the early work – taking out Mega Aerodactyl, among other things – and the beast that is Curse Avalugg against an entirely physically-based team cleaned up the rest. Jynx was crucial in setting things up here.). And if I had kept Jynx for longer, it would have made Laura and Bennett (which was actually the hardest of the six Elite Four/Champion battles for my Ice monotype) a lot less daunting, and that's not even talking about some of the psychotic post-game Double Battles (the Darkrai quest in tier 5 comes to mind ...) that Jynx would have made a lot easier. So yeah, I think Jynx is a lot better than you give it credit for, being able to spread status whilst also potentially becoming an offensive threat with Nasty Plot. Its bulk is indeed pitiful, but Aurora Veil can remedy that issue a bit.

I agree that Abomasnow is a very niche pick – one weakness of the Ice-type that I am fully willing to grant is that it has far too few megas to choose from. Mega Abomasnow is very slow, has a ton of weaknesses, and because Reborn uses Gen VII movesets, its movepool is also a lot worse than in Rejuvenation (where I did actually put it to good use – both as a permanent Ice-type pick and as a niche pick for specific battles on my Grass monotype); among other things, I think it doesn't even get Aurora Veil. Its mega ability is also very disappointing, given that its Mega Stone prevents it from holding an Icy Rock (meaning its use as a hail setter if you are inclined to build a team around hail diminishes, and you will probably need a second weather setter). Abomasnow is good at countering Water-types, but that is essentially it. Mega Glalie is decent enough, has a fair Speed tier with Jolly nature, and does have good offensive presence (wreaking havoc with a field-boosted Refrigerate Return against Elias was super satisfying, for example), but it doesn't even remotely hold a candle to the megas other types offer (like Salamence for the aforementioned Dragon type, for example). Once it becomes available in Rejuvenation, I think I will go for Lapras as my mega pick (Rejuvenation turns all G-Max forms into megas), which actually has excellent stats that make a Dragon Dance set viable (which I am super excited to try out) and a good movepool (though unfortunately a pretty useless ability for hail teams).

 

As for your changes to the ranking, I think they are fair – I wanted to ask (without necessarily suggesting a change – I am too inexperienced for that) why Dark is so high, given that I also don't see that much overarching strategy for that type (the synergy with a lot of fields is definitely a major point in favor of it, though). I am going to trust you on Fire and Fighting, given that they are probably the last monotypes I am going to try because I just don't care that much for either type, but Ground and Water both have clear defensive and offensive qualities, a plethora of options, and obvious weather plays that probably make them some of the easiest monotypes. Something similar goes for Flying (which a previous commenter has already spoken about), Fairy, and Steel, and your reasons for bumping Steel down a bit are definitely understandable (I heard that some fights – like the Lumi/Eve fight on the Inverse Field – are insane with a Steel monotype. I did my Steel monotype in Rejuvenation, which actually has a gym battle on the Inverse Field against the Rock-type leader that was obviously really hard because Steel just suddenly became the worst type by a mile with a whopping ten weaknesses, and the seed applying Normalize to the user and turning it into a super-effective titan against me was the bane of my existence, so it could be worse, I guess.). Obviously, since that is what I have been arguing for, I also agree with you putting Ice higher and Dragon lower. I really appreciate your willingness to discuss the rankings and alter your list accordingly, by the way.

 

What I really wanted to get into, though, is something that transpired on the Reborn subreddit (where I am more active than on this forum) today – someone posted a tier list of monotype runs that is very different from what we (as in, the collective of commenters in this thread) came up with, and it inspired a lot of rather intense discussion. OP made five different tiers – basically the same, slightly harder, moderately harder, much harder, and almost impossible compared to a normal playthrough. I would like to make some comments about this – just to add a bit of confusion, though, the almost impossible tier is at the top, and so, for the purposes of commenting on that tier list, higher means harder, and lower means easier (which is, of course, the opposite of the rankings in this thread).

• Ice is in the much harder tier, which I actually initially thought was fair – based on the main game, I would rank it as being moderately or even just slightly harder (in other words, one or two tiers lower than where OP put it), but one crucial difference between this thread and the tier list linked is that the tier list takes both the main game and the postgame into account, and because Ice gives you very few new team options throughout the postgame (there are no Ice-type UBs, and Kyurem is a beast, but it can only be acquired in Tier 6 – in other words, almost at the end), I thought it was fair to put it a bit higher in terms of difficulty. Some commenters have convinced me that it should be lower, however, echoing my observation that the main game is pretty favorable towards Ice-types. One of them even argued that Ice should be ranked basically the same, but I don't think I would go that far – that would put it on par with Steel, Water, and Fairy, which I think are certainly quite a bit easier and which have a lot more post-game options going for them. It is interesting how much views of Ice as a monotype diverge, though – one commenter also mentioned being stuck with their Ice-type run. I think moderately harder would be more fitting, and I would be open to slightly harder (note that more than half of all types are in the bottom two tiers – in other words, ranking Ice slightly harder would put it in the middle in terms of difficulty).
• Dragon is in the slightly harder tier, and I think we can both agree that it should not be anywhere near that (at least from what we have experienced). What looks to me like a decent postgame would probably keep it below the almost impossible tier, though.
• Electric is in the slightly harder tier as well, which is in stark contrast to you ranking it dead last. I am not as hopeless with Electric-types as I am with, say, Fire- or Fighting-types, but I have no monotype experience with them either, so I will not weigh in one way or another. Still, as a lackey, it seemed counterintuitive to me that a monotype with just one weakness (albeit arguably the most common attacking type) and the absolutely broken Electric Terrain would be that bad. Could you elaborate on that a bit?
• Grass is in the almost impossible tier, which, especially considering the postgame and Grassy Terrain, I certainly disagree with. Grass is definitely on the harder side, but not among the two most challenging; I think ranking it fourteenth as you did it is more accurate.
• Psychic is deemed basically the same in the tier list, which, while I have no experience in this area, I could imagine being a perspective with some merit. Psychic comes with Psychic Terrain, which overrides all existing fields except the New World (this is my billionth time saying that I think Reborn's terrain mechanics are broken, I guess), and it also gives you Light Screen/Reflect very early on, a lot of decent fully evolved choices that can ravage through the mid-game, and a plethora of choices that allows for diverse strategies. I can personally attest from non-monotype experience that Magic Guard Sigilyph is an absolute beast if it is able to set up Cosmic Powers (which, with Light Screen and Reflect, is certainly realistic), for example.

I was certainly moved by some of the tier list, as well as the comments that ensued; definitely feel free to check it out. It is actually really interesting that two discussions of monotype difficulty conducted independently from one another could yield such different results. Note, however, that two independent rankings both had Rock near the bottom and Fairy, Fighting, Flying, Ground, Steel, and Water near the top, which suggests that these perspectives have a lot of merit.

You definitely have a ton of insight into the ice types, and I agree there is a lot of synergy to be had. Your take on Jinx intrigues me a bit... I had a similar strategy but with Walrien instead. I found his insane bulk allowed him to easily pop off a yawn and then allowed me to either switch or sacrifice him to get a sweeper out. I guess my view on it tends to lead towards "if it's a sweeper it needs speed and high atk or spatk" and " setters and walls need to have a lot of either Def or spdef, preferably both" so I always found with Jinx lack of speed it was difficult to put her in a sweeping role. My team breakdowns usually consist of one spatk sweeper, one atk sweeper, one Def wall, one spdef wall, and then two "wildcards" which one will usually be a field setter if applicable.

 

I found that abomasnow had some of the same issues as well, he doesn't really EXCEL in much except countering water/ground types, but pretty much ALL ice pokemon counter ground types and the move Refrigerate takes care of water types well enough

 

As for my Dark ranking, it really came down to the actual pokemon you have to choose from... there are just SO many powerhouse pokemon it's insane. Moxie earthquake krookodile, moxie sucked punch/brave bird honchcrow (or trickster perish song for pulses), contrary malamar for increasingly strong superpowers, spiritomb with a huge 108 for spdef and Def and only 1 type weakness, umbreon is one of the chunkiest tanks in the game, incineroar is really beefy with access to a great dark stab move - darkest lariat, even in the early game you can grab a mightyena with moxie and that can carry you until pretty much midgame, and to top it off you have things like sharpedo with speed boost or mega tyranitar. So it's not necessarily that dark has good synergy or Field effects, is just that they are SO DAMN GOOD as pokemon. Also, they do get a SLIGHT boost from Field effects since the factory Field is so common and breaking it with EQ or turning it off with Discharge makes it buff dark type moves.

 

As for electric, my issue with it is that it is essentially ice without all the things that make ice powerful. You are PAINFULLY reliant on Terrain shifting in your favor (since there isnt really electric weather like hail is for ice that you can reliably set up), and the one saving grace is that you can summon Electric Field on a bunch of different electric types. The problem is though that Ground being IMMUNE to your powerful stab moves, and the fact that Lanturn is the only Water type you can get (and it is a tank rather than a sweeper) means that essentially EVERY time a ground type hits the field you are in MAJOR trouble. That paired with the fact that most Ground types can learn EQ through level up or TM means that almost all the "tough" matchups you have can brutalize you with a 100 power supereffective move that has 100 percent accuracy. I ended up having to break down at one point in the run and super EV training a jolteon on speed so he was the fastest thing in the game and giving him toxic so I could revive spam and wait out some of the types that were giving me problems (which felt super uncool and degenerate). Also, other than something like rotom freeze you don't have very many options at all foe garchomp/mega garchomp and that is a particular powerhouse you see a good bit in Reborn.

 

Another sidenote that I would bring up is that since I have heard the endgame is EXTREMELY long and the game "technically" ends after the E4, I have been playing these runs ONLY until I beat the E4, and I ranked them based off that. I feel that may have a good deal of impact on the rankings since some of the legends make a noticeable difference in team structure and power (i.e. you can slot in articuno as a powerhouse in an ice type list)

I also think this is a bit more "fair" since IMO most legenaries kinda break the game a bit with insane movesets, abilities, and stat totals. I am afraid that the rankings become shifted in that manner to "what type has the most/best legendaries" instead of "what type is the easiest/hardest to 'beat the game' with.

 

All in all I'm not sure I agree with the tier list, but I'll make a separate post on this thread since this post is getting so long lol

[Cassandra]

On 5/19/2022 at 5:30 PM, Whitelight said:

You definitely have a ton of insight into the ice types, and I agree there is a lot of synergy to be had. Your take on Jinx intrigues me a bit... I had a similar strategy but with Walrien instead. I found his insane bulk allowed him to easily pop off a yawn and then allowed me to either switch or sacrifice him to get a sweeper out. I guess my view on it tends to lead towards "if it's a sweeper it needs speed and high atk or spatk" and " setters and walls need to have a lot of either Def or spdef, preferably both" so I always found with Jinx lack of speed it was difficult to put her in a sweeping role. My team breakdowns usually consist of one spatk sweeper, one atk sweeper, one Def wall, one spdef wall, and then two "wildcards" which one will usually be a field setter if applicable.

 

I found that abomasnow had some of the same issues as well, he doesn't really EXCEL in much except countering water/ground types, but pretty much ALL ice pokemon counter ground types and the move Refrigerate takes care of water types well enough

 

As for my Dark ranking, it really came down to the actual pokemon you have to choose from... there are just SO many powerhouse pokemon it's insane. Moxie earthquake krookodile, moxie sucked punch/brave bird honchcrow (or trickster perish song for pulses), contrary malamar for increasingly strong superpowers, spiritomb with a huge 108 for spdef and Def and only 1 type weakness, umbreon is one of the chunkiest tanks in the game, incineroar is really beefy with access to a great dark stab move - darkest lariat, even in the early game you can grab a mightyena with moxie and that can carry you until pretty much midgame, and to top it off you have things like sharpedo with speed boost or mega tyranitar. So it's not necessarily that dark has good synergy or Field effects, is just that they are SO DAMN GOOD as pokemon. Also, they do get a SLIGHT boost from Field effects since the factory Field is so common and breaking it with EQ or turning it off with Discharge makes it buff dark type moves.

 

As for electric, my issue with it is that it is essentially ice without all the things that make ice powerful. You are PAINFULLY reliant on Terrain shifting in your favor (since there isnt really electric weather like hail is for ice that you can reliably set up), and the one saving grace is that you can summon Electric Field on a bunch of different electric types. The problem is though that Ground being IMMUNE to your powerful stab moves, and the fact that Lanturn is the only Water type you can get (and it is a tank rather than a sweeper) means that essentially EVERY time a ground type hits the field you are in MAJOR trouble. That paired with the fact that most Ground types can learn EQ through level up or TM means that almost all the "tough" matchups you have can brutalize you with a 100 power supereffective move that has 100 percent accuracy. I ended up having to break down at one point in the run and super EV training a jolteon on speed so he was the fastest thing in the game and giving him toxic so I could revive spam and wait out some of the types that were giving me problems (which felt super uncool and degenerate). Also, other than something like rotom freeze you don't have very many options at all foe garchomp/mega garchomp and that is a particular powerhouse you see a good bit in Reborn.

 

Another sidenote that I would bring up is that since I have heard the endgame is EXTREMELY long and the game "technically" ends after the E4, I have been playing these runs ONLY until I beat the E4, and I ranked them based off that. I feel that may have a good deal of impact on the rankings since some of the legends make a noticeable difference in team structure and power (i.e. you can slot in articuno as a powerhouse in an ice type list)

I also think this is a bit more "fair" since IMO most legenaries kinda break the game a bit with insane movesets, abilities, and stat totals. I am afraid that the rankings become shifted in that manner to "what type has the most/best legendaries" instead of "what type is the easiest/hardest to 'beat the game' with.

 

All in all I'm not sure I agree with the tier list, but I'll make a separate post on this thread since this post is getting so long lol

Your approach to teambuilding is really interesting because it is quite different from mine – particularly in Reborn/Rejuvenation, where you often get pretty crazy field-boosted attacks thrown your way, I don't particularly place a lot of value in defensive qualities alone, given that it is very difficult to wall a lot of opponents even if you have your corresponding wall ready to go. I usually try to build my team around an offensive core of 2–3 Pokemon, only to then fill the rest of my party in accordance with what they can offer specifically to that group. The final party of my Bug monotype in Rejuvenation (which I did just before delving into E19 of Reborn), for instance, was largely built around Frosmoth/Volcarona/Ledian, and, for instance, I found Araquanid useful because it could set up Sticky Web (benefitting Ledian and pre-Quiver Dance Frosmoth, who are both at a mediocre speed tier, in particular) and shut down Fire-types, Scizor could complement the somewhat lackluster defense of the remaining party and deal with Flying-types in particular, and Yanmega could revenge-kill threats unaffected by Sticky Web when things got rough (thank god Stealth Rock isn't that common in Reborn/Rejuvenation). This is how I create most of my teams, to be honest. In light of that approach, Jynx may not neatly fit into the category of a sweeper (too slow and not that powerful either) or a support Pokemon (too frail), but it definitely offers quite a bit in terms of team composition and is quite versatile, which rarely makes it dead weight. As for Abomasnow, I assume you meant Freeze-Dry, right? Yeah, definitely – though, to be honest, I usually find it too bothersome to add Freeze-Dry to my party movesets because it isn't a very powerful move and is only useful specifically for countering Water-types. Thing is, designated Water-type trainers are already eminently beatable with an Ice-type team because one use of Blizzard (or Dive + Blizzard for the Underwater Field) will move things onto your turf, so I found that Water-heavy teams never posed much of an issue to me.

As for your Dark-type case, seems fair enough! And your explanation as to why Electric is so difficult definitely seems plausible – what Mega Scizor is to Ice, (Mega) Garchomp is to Electric. Add to that that most Electric-types have a pretty narrow moveset, and you are pretty much screwed unless you happen to go for very specific team options like Rotom-F. I am currently using a Dedenne on my Fairy monotype (the one I started in E19 of Reborn), and getting completely walled by any decent Ground-type is absolutely just incredibly frustrating. Given that Earthquake is also probably the single most common coverage move for a whole lot of physically oriented non-Ground-types ... yeah, my naive estimation may have underestimated just what a massive liability that Ground-type weakness is. At least, say, Fire-types can often learn Grass-type moves to compensate for this weakness, whereas Electric-types may not have a ton of options outside of Hidden Power Ice/Grass/Water.

Lastly, your case for leaving out the postgame in terms of both practicality and fairness is one I fully agree with – I only added postgame discussion insofar as it pertained to the tier list, which explicitly incorporated it.