Mono Run Ranking List

[Cassandra]

52 minutes ago, Whitelight said:

Nice that you found some use foe crabrawler!!! That is another pokemon that I have unfortunately found pretty lackluster in my experience. 

 

As far as the terrain goes, I agree that it is potent especially for mono runs, but I can't help but feel a lot of the arguments you use against rain hold up the same against Misty terrain, the turn issue for example. The only "drizzle" for Misty terrain AFAIK is ok one of the tapu ultra beast pokemon, so you would have to burn a turn just setting up Misty terrain, which, fair enough it's a strong opening move. But where I see the struggle is it has 0 value against bullet punch pokemon, or sped up iron heads from Slush Rush alolan sandslash for example. I guess I'm coming more from a position that since Reborn introduced more in the terrain aspect, there is a little bit less overall strategy involved with the Misty terrain. It is more of a slap on buff than it is a game changer, and it can hurt you a bit too considering you can't use things like rest, hypnosis, thunder wave etc. I mean don't get me wrong when it works it really works, but there are some fringe cases where I actually held off using the terrain because it hurt me more than helped me especially by turning off status conditions, and I can't really think of a situation where rain would HURT a water team. And I do agree on a water team fire types pose no threat, I guess where I was coming from on that is that you can set up more fragile sweepers in the rain against a fire type without worrying about them tearing you up.

 

Also! I'm at the E4 with flying types now. A lot of it has been a breeze but it's very glass cannon speed reliant without many viable tanks, so I'm learning certain things like accelerock can REALLY put a hurt on you, other than that it's been nice. I'll hit you up after I round out the rest of the runs, it shouldn't take me TOOOO long hopefully, especially since the last 5 runs should HOPEFULLY be the easiest. 

The reason I don't feel it is analogous is that no one forces you to play defensively after using Misty Terrain – you can completely turn off the enemy's field boosts for a really long time, which gives you ample time to set up or just spam Pixilate-boosted attacks or field-boosted Moonblast or whatever else comes to mind. Rain doesn't do a thing about offensive pressure of the enemy, with the one exception of Fire-type moves (and as to your final point, a frailer sweeper would probably still get trounced by whatever non-Fire-type moves a Fire-type opponent carries). And while physical Steel-type moves remain an issue not remedied by Misty Terrain (just as rain does not solve the issue of Grass-type moves or Electric-type moves tearing through a team), I would argue that the Fairy type has more than enough counterplay to that. The status condition aspect can definitely obstruct strategy, but that works both ways, so I would not view it as a disadvantage per se.

 

Good luck on your remaining runs! I would really be interested in seeing your final ranking, though I understand that it is challenging to reasonably assess everything in hindsight because later runs will naturally appear easier than earlier ones once you have the routine and experience.

[Whitelight]

17 hours ago, Cassandra said:

The reason I don't feel it is analogous is that no one forces you to play defensively after using Misty Terrain – you can completely turn off the enemy's field boosts for a really long time, which gives you ample time to set up or just spam Pixilate-boosted attacks or field-boosted Moonblast or whatever else comes to mind. Rain doesn't do a thing about offensive pressure of the enemy, with the one exception of Fire-type moves (and as to your final point, a frailer sweeper would probably still get trounced by whatever non-Fire-type moves a Fire-type opponent carries). And while physical Steel-type moves remain an issue not remedied by Misty Terrain (just as rain does not solve the issue of Grass-type moves or Electric-type moves tearing through a team), I would argue that the Fairy type has more than enough counterplay to that. The status condition aspect can definitely obstruct strategy, but that works both ways, so I would not view it as a disadvantage per se.

 

Good luck on your remaining runs! I would really be interested in seeing your final ranking, though I understand that it is challenging to reasonably assess everything in hindsight because later runs will naturally appear easier than earlier ones once you have the routine and experience.

You do bring up some good points about rain having no defensive buffs over Misty terrain, but I still thing having 50% boosted STAB water attacks on a swift swim user like Kingdra is SUPER potent. I think both Misty terrain and rain both have their distinct advantages and disadvantages though, while Misty terrain does give a huge special defense boost, it only boosts certain Fairy type attacks and does nothing for Speed, and also pigeonholes you into NOT using status conditions at all, if im not mistaken you can't even flinch on Misty terrain so that removes the use of any fakeout tech as well. It does do a good job of triggering some passive abilities of some of the Fairy pokemon too.

 

On the other hand, rain may be easier to cancel out, but it is also easier to set up IMO with things like Drizzle, which admittedly forces you to use either pelipper, politoed,  or kyogre, but that seems like an OK tradeoff for being able to utilize the effects with other pokemon. Rain also boosts ALL water type moves, and you can use it in CONJUNCTION with terrain so if you play it smart you can have things like volt absorb lanturn on a broken Electric Factory Field that becomes immune to electric AND a lot of water moves while still able to Dish out double boosted water moved of its own. 

 

Anyways, I figure it mostly boils down to personal preference too considering it is kinda hard to compare the two side by side given they do different things, but on another note I finished the flying run, the E4 was way easier than I thought it was gonna be. I'm just starting the water run and yikes I didn't think of how tough the early game was gonna be with electric and grass being the first two gyms and also having to deal with the pulse tangrowths.... luckily bibarel learns yawn and was able to sleep it long enough for golden to drop it'd defense with tailwhip through the floor and let me finish it off with some tackles and other assorted physical moves lol

[Cassandra]

On 7/2/2022 at 5:26 PM, Whitelight said:

You do bring up some good points about rain having no defensive buffs over Misty terrain, but I still thing having 50% boosted STAB water attacks on a swift swim user like Kingdra is SUPER potent. I think both Misty terrain and rain both have their distinct advantages and disadvantages though, while Misty terrain does give a huge special defense boost, it only boosts certain Fairy type attacks and does nothing for Speed, and also pigeonholes you into NOT using status conditions at all, if im not mistaken you can't even flinch on Misty terrain so that removes the use of any fakeout tech as well. It does do a good job of triggering some passive abilities of some of the Fairy pokemon too.

 

On the other hand, rain may be easier to cancel out, but it is also easier to set up IMO with things like Drizzle, which admittedly forces you to use either pelipper, politoed,  or kyogre, but that seems like an OK tradeoff for being able to utilize the effects with other pokemon. Rain also boosts ALL water type moves, and you can use it in CONJUNCTION with terrain so if you play it smart you can have things like volt absorb lanturn on a broken Electric Factory Field that becomes immune to electric AND a lot of water moves while still able to Dish out double boosted water moved of its own. 

 

Anyways, I figure it mostly boils down to personal preference too considering it is kinda hard to compare the two side by side given they do different things, but on another note I finished the flying run, the E4 was way easier than I thought it was gonna be. I'm just starting the water run and yikes I didn't think of how tough the early game was gonna be with electric and grass being the first two gyms and also having to deal with the pulse tangrowths.... luckily bibarel learns yawn and was able to sleep it long enough for golden to drop it'd defense with tailwhip through the floor and let me finish it off with some tackles and other assorted physical moves lol

I mean, I agree with you that the outright boosts of rain (and also other weather conditions) and terrains like Misty Terrain are probably roughly equivalent and somewhat tricky to compare, but what I keep coming back to and what I feel makes terrain effects so crazy is that they override the existing field (with the exception of the Underwater Field and the New World – I am writing this for like the tenth time, so I am going to assume that this caveat is generally understood for the purposes of this discussion and be a bit sloppy in saying that terrain X overrides the field of the battle), creating a new field effect that the enemy is unlikely to gain solid footing on. Rejuvenation has a different system where moves like Misty Terrain do not outright override the existing field effect, instead existing on top of that field with their most basic benefits accessible (I don't quite understand the exact mechanics, to be honest, but what I've gathered is that things like power boosts to moves of a certain type are available, whereas more advanced stuff like seed activation does not work – unless, of course, the existing field already activates the seed in question) – I think the reason they put this mechanic in place is that Grookey with Grassy Surge would otherwise have mown through most of the game, making it an utterly busted starter, and as a result, I would not consider terrains in Rejuvenation to be OP.

 

Users of Swift Swim (or the corresponding abilities like Sand Rush, Slush Rush, or Chlorophyll) are definitely a little bit busted, though their offenses only receive limited boosts (Water-type and Fire-type moves for users of Swift Swim and Chlorophyll, respectively, and none at all for Sand Rush or Slush Rush users) and the generally mediocre stats of a Pokemon like Kingdra limit its sweeping potential. By contrast, if you have a sweeper X that maybe doesn't like the existing field very much, it can (possibly with screen support) easily switch in after a terrain change, set up, and sweep the opposing party – that is what I think makes terrain moves so powerful, and it doesn't have any counterpart in weather strategies of any sort. Not to mention the possibility of further terrain changes that can seriously turn the field against the opponent if the terrain did not already do enough in that direction – Grassy Terrain + Heat Wave (which I think is not a possible combo for monotypes in particular, but the point still stands) will, for instance, turn the field into a Burning Field and make the opponent actively take field damage for a few turns, which, especially for teams weak to Fire, basically means the fight is over unless they happen to be carrying specific moves like Tailwind to terminate it.

 

Either way, I look forward to hearing about your Water-type experience when you're finished! Truth be told, it's been so long since my own Water-type run (almost all of which I did in E18) that I'm not sure I will be able to talk all that much about specifics, but I definitely think the PULSE Tangrowth battles have become trickier in the transition from E18 to E19, going from a single opponent fought thrice to three different installments that actually synergize fairly well with their respective fields; I suppose I was spared from that. Either way, I finally took my last exam for the semester yesterday and am now post-restoration on my PULSE2 run, and it's mostly been smooth sailing, especially compared to the early game, which was actually rather tricky. As expected, the added difficulty from the EV boost eventually diminishes, and the fights against Charlotte, Terra, and Ciel (though I obviously had a type advantage against the latter two, and Ciel in particular is probably the easiest leader overall, so that doesn't tell us that much) have largely mirrored their normal game counterparts in terms of difficulty. Samson is the last leader that was really noticeably more challenging, which I think was largely due to the fact that my team is very weak to Fighting (only Jynx and Alolan Ninetales are not, and both are rather frail on the physical side anyway; by contrast, Aurorus and Alolan Sandslash are both 4x weak to Fighting) and not all that naturally speedy either. In that situation, PULSE2 really made a difference because it did not allow me to pick off Hawlucha with an Ice Shard or oneshot Mienshao with Dazzling Gleam (I was too lazy to breed Moonblast onto Ninetales, and that really came back to bite me because the disparity in base power was actually the difference between a OHKO and a 2HKO after Life Orb damage from a prior move here). Not that it was nearly as bad as some of the early-game stuff, but it definitely took multiple attempts.

Edited July 3, 2022 by Cassandra
corrected minor terminological mix-up (terrain vs. field)

[Akontistes]

I got my update for you guys, as you asked! I literally just finished the game on a "bad ending" route (it makes a huge difference cause Champion's Togekiss was a major pain) and I have to admit that Labradorra onwards gave me some problems. Sceptile became suddenly unremovable for me due to his ability to sleep and sweep on some tough battles on the Dragon's Den and, unsurprisingly, Nature Power and Hidden Power Fire still reign supreme in my movesets. The latter especially is so good on Serperior to check the Scizor you were talking about, I don't think I've found other strategies for that other than giving Hidden Power Fire to my Venusaur as well. Before anything else I want to point out that I do play set mode with no items, since I didn't state it in the previous comment cause my stupid brain thought it obvious while it clearly isn't.

As a final judgement I still would not count the run as one of the hardest. Glass Gauntlet was smooth sailing for me, Ferrothorn has to be one of the best pokemons in the entire game (as long as you get him out of the rather frequent Heat Waves) and once you have access to anti X supereffective move berries you can setup with Spore Sword Dance Breloom with his impressive learnset or the forementioned unburden Sceptile (or mega Sceptile) with grass whistle and Work Up/Sword Dance. I even ended up building two Sceptiles, a physical and a special one. You might think it unreliable but Grass Whistle has 80% on Grassy Terrain and it honestly wrecked through some of the toughest battles, sweeping both Saphira and last Cal. Pulse Clawitzer has to be the hardest fight in the game for this run and I ended up having to rely on luck on that. I'm not proud of it but sometimes it's all you need. Victory Road battles were hilariously easy. Turns out Flamethrower Harvest Alolan Exeggutor was much better than I was expecting him to be if you set up Sunny Day and Trick Room.

The elephant in the room is ofc E4. Without spoling: First battle is very easy, I think that E1 team is pretty bad and any moderately fast pokemon with access to Rock Slide and Sword Dance can sweep. E2 I was at a bit of a loss cause my Ferrothorn Jumpluff strat didn't really work well so I borrowed Xes strategy (big shout out to his monograss, much much cleaner than mine) with trick room Gourgeist A Exeggutor since they both learn Flamethrower Sunny Day Protect and Trick Room. E3 is a joke, spam Nature Power -> easy win. E4 was really really tough but again Nature Power and Hidden Power Fire were the real MVPs. Champion 1 was decently easy with Serperior sweeping, the real problem is the last pokemon (again don't want to spoil since it has story implications) but I ended up sneaking a Trick Room under him and killing him with Flamethrower and (no, I'm not joking) Struggle on a Choice Band Breloom who had 1PP of Rock Slide. Champion 2 is just Recycle Shiinotic fest, dude soloed all 6 pokemons with +6 in all stats. And that's the end of the run.

 

Again what I think it's really busted for this run is the insane choice of sweepers, setters, trick room, type coverage, you name it you got it. This paired with some incredibly strong pokemons (namely Ferrothorn, Mega Venusaur and Serperior) and some very versatile ones (Sceptile, Meganium, Breloom) makes 95% of the battles very easy with decent preparation. Nature Power is the strongest move in the game and any pokemon that can learn it and has decent enough stats instantly becomes a menace, turns out almost the entirety of my roster could learn the move, had some setup potential and could be paired with Spore/Sleep Powder/Grass Whistle/Glare/Trick Room/Chlorophyll/Swift Swim (Ludicolo <3). This carried me through the last stages of the game in which having single strong pokemons isn't enough. You need to think A LOT, I will not lie on that, but that doesn't mean the run is as hard as others you mentioned down the list, easily top 3 early and mid game and top 10 late game in my humble opinion.

To summarize my run: Serperior is the best starter, Spore Grass Whistle and Sleep Powder are your best friends, Jumpluff should be in your team up until Titania and only at that point you should get rid of it (dude solo swept Ciel and Samson, just saying), if you ever find yourself in a bad spot just teach Nature Power to someone strong enough to sweep or with some setup potential, Ferrothorn is awesome, Sceptile is your best late game pokemon by a very long shot but he's honestly useless without Grass Whistle and either Work Up or Swords Dance, Hidden Power Fire Alolan Exeggutor and Sunny Day Weather Ball Roserade are much more than enough to get rid of Steel and Bugs, Meganium is a 530 stats defensive pokemon who learns both screens, Grassy Terrain and Nature Power 'nuff said.

If you have anything you want to ask, be my guest! I'm super proud of my little plants and I can talk about them all you want!

[Cassandra]

15 hours ago, Akontistes said:

I got my update for you guys, as you asked! I literally just finished the game on a "bad ending" route (it makes a huge difference cause Champion's Togekiss was a major pain) and I have to admit that Labradorra onwards gave me some problems. Sceptile became suddenly unremovable for me due to his ability to sleep and sweep on some tough battles on the Dragon's Den and, unsurprisingly, Nature Power and Hidden Power Fire still reign supreme in my movesets. The latter especially is so good on Serperior to check the Scizor you were talking about, I don't think I've found other strategies for that other than giving Hidden Power Fire to my Venusaur as well. Before anything else I want to point out that I do play set mode with no items, since I didn't state it in the previous comment cause my stupid brain thought it obvious while it clearly isn't.

As a final judgement I still would not count the run as one of the hardest. Glass Gauntlet was smooth sailing for me, Ferrothorn has to be one of the best pokemons in the entire game (as long as you get him out of the rather frequent Heat Waves) and once you have access to anti X supereffective move berries you can setup with Spore Sword Dance Breloom with his impressive learnset or the forementioned unburden Sceptile (or mega Sceptile) with grass whistle and Work Up/Sword Dance. I even ended up building two Sceptiles, a physical and a special one. You might think it unreliable but Grass Whistle has 80% on Grassy Terrain and it honestly wrecked through some of the toughest battles, sweeping both Saphira and last Cal. Pulse Clawitzer has to be the hardest fight in the game for this run and I ended up having to rely on luck on that. I'm not proud of it but sometimes it's all you need. Victory Road battles were hilariously easy. Turns out Flamethrower Harvest Alolan Exeggutor was much better than I was expecting him to be if you set up Sunny Day and Trick Room.

The elephant in the room is ofc E4. Without spoling: First battle is very easy, I think that E1 team is pretty bad and any moderately fast pokemon with access to Rock Slide and Sword Dance can sweep. E2 I was at a bit of a loss cause my Ferrothorn Jumpluff strat didn't really work well so I borrowed Xes strategy (big shout out to his monograss, much much cleaner than mine) with trick room Gourgeist A Exeggutor since they both learn Flamethrower Sunny Day Protect and Trick Room. E3 is a joke, spam Nature Power -> easy win. E4 was really really tough but again Nature Power and Hidden Power Fire were the real MVPs. Champion 1 was decently easy with Serperior sweeping, the real problem is the last pokemon (again don't want to spoil since it has story implications) but I ended up sneaking a Trick Room under him and killing him with Flamethrower and (no, I'm not joking) Struggle on a Choice Band Breloom who had 1PP of Rock Slide. Champion 2 is just Recycle Shiinotic fest, dude soloed all 6 pokemons with +6 in all stats. And that's the end of the run.

 

Again what I think it's really busted for this run is the insane choice of sweepers, setters, trick room, type coverage, you name it you got it. This paired with some incredibly strong pokemons (namely Ferrothorn, Mega Venusaur and Serperior) and some very versatile ones (Sceptile, Meganium, Breloom) makes 95% of the battles very easy with decent preparation. Nature Power is the strongest move in the game and any pokemon that can learn it and has decent enough stats instantly becomes a menace, turns out almost the entirety of my roster could learn the move, had some setup potential and could be paired with Spore/Sleep Powder/Grass Whistle/Glare/Trick Room/Chlorophyll/Swift Swim (Ludicolo <3). This carried me through the last stages of the game in which having single strong pokemons isn't enough. You need to think A LOT, I will not lie on that, but that doesn't mean the run is as hard as others you mentioned down the list, easily top 3 early and mid game and top 10 late game in my humble opinion.

To summarize my run: Serperior is the best starter, Spore Grass Whistle and Sleep Powder are your best friends, Jumpluff should be in your team up until Titania and only at that point you should get rid of it (dude solo swept Ciel and Samson, just saying), if you ever find yourself in a bad spot just teach Nature Power to someone strong enough to sweep or with some setup potential, Ferrothorn is awesome, Sceptile is your best late game pokemon by a very long shot but he's honestly useless without Grass Whistle and either Work Up or Swords Dance, Hidden Power Fire Alolan Exeggutor and Sunny Day Weather Ball Roserade are much more than enough to get rid of Steel and Bugs, Meganium is a 530 stats defensive pokemon who learns both screens, Grassy Terrain and Nature Power 'nuff said.

If you have anything you want to ask, be my guest! I'm super proud of my little plants and I can talk about them all you want!

Very interesting perspective all around! As an overall question, I would be interested to hear about your usual team, given that you mentioned a whole bunch of team options; did you switch out a lot, if I may ask? I have seen people do this (including the aforementioned Xes from Reddit, who did this super elegant Grass monotype employing very specific strategies with just the right team constellation each and every time; none of my monotypes even begin to approach this level of strategic sophistication), but personally, I have found this sort of thing rather tedious, which is why I started restricting myself to training six Pokemon at a time.

 

Your insight into Grass-type team options is extremely valuable, and as someone who did their Grass monotype on Rejuvenation (meaning no Serperior and no Ferrothorn), there were a few I certainly failed to consider. Jumpluff is an absolute beast that is incredibly valuable in the early game in particular, getting an incredible movepool and a good amount of Speed (which the Grass type is a bit strapped for outside of Serperior, Sceptile, and Whimsicott, the latter of which I would also like to hear your view on – personally, I really enjoyed getting those Prankster Tailwinds and Mementos on my recent Fairy monotype). I have never seriously considered Sceptile as a team option, given that, while it is speedy, its stats are rather mediocre. However, I believe you raise a good point as to its versatility courtesy of its expansive movepool, and I just learned that it has Unburden, which is probably the single most broken ability in the game in conjunction with the seeds (would have been very helpful against a certain Flying-type gym leader from Rejuvenation who opens with an Unburden Hawlucha that gets eight turns of free Tailwind thanks to its seed and has a habit of sweeping my Grass-type teams, but I digress). Meganium is a super underrated team choice in my view, being able to provide extremely valuable support.

 

All in all, your experience made me curious to try my own Grass monotype on Reborn; maybe I will do so once I wrap up this PULSE2 Ice project I am doing right now, which is proving a real hassle to document – I was busy for like six hours straight yesterday collecting all the battle clips, putting them together into videos, cropping them as necessary because the game window just ends up in the top left corner of a black screen for whatever reason (even when I go full screen), and then creating a somewhat structured write-up outlining my mid-game experience. I seriously respect people like the aforementioned Xes who do this stuff for all their monotypes.

[Whitelight]

So I would like to piggyback onto this and say that those are some incredibly interesting strategies you bring up... I also want to say thank both of you so incredibly much for being active on this thread and sharing your experiences. I am nearing the close of the "first phase" of the mono project that I have been dreaming of for literally YEARS and I am getting more and more excited to tackle end game. 

 

I would also like to reach out to you akontistes, and see if you would like to join Cassandra and I on a project in the near future to determine an "optimal" end game team for each type! I think it would be fantastic to have as many viewpoints and opinions as we could get, especially since we each seem to have a niche type or two that we really enjoy building.

 

Also, I feel like Grass probably will end up moving up a bit after all since I hadn't really factored in much trick room usage, and I also hadn't given a ton of priority to berry and harvest strategies which probably would have made the run much easier. All the more reason why I appreciate yalls advice and feedback so much.

 

And a small update for me, I am currently on Samson in the water run, everything has been fairly smooth sailing so far after florinia who was a little more dicey than I would have liked. Swanna has been a surprising kingpin of my team with the flying support but I suppose that it will be trashed once I get my hands on gyrados. The one thing I have found a bit frustrating around the water type run is that it seems a lot of good water types are locked fairly far into the run... I finally can get my walrein and kindgra though so that is a big step in the right direction, but powerhouses like cloyster and golisopod (and of course the almighty magikarp) are unfortunately all the way in post renovation reborn :(

 

Oh and one last sidenote... for simplicity and speed I do play on switch battle mode and use items... and unfortunately have sometimes resorted to revive/toxic stalling and other such "degenerate" strategies. I am trying to get better about it, but I feel what I lack in strategic initiative sometimes, I try my best to make up for in sheer determination!

 

[Akontistes]

Hey buddy, as Pokemon Challenges once said, if the game messes up with you, you have all the right in the world to mess up with it! Ain't no "degenerate" strategies in such a difficult game, there's only victory! I'll be gladly staying in touch with both of you, I recently made this account just to comment on this post cause I found your discussion to be incredibly interesting so feel free to reach out to me and we can share discord # or whatever. There's also another friend of mine with whom I frequently talk about strategies and Reborn monotypes as we've done 4 different ones in the two of us and we usually tackle tough battles together to come up with strategies. He's actually the one who linked me this post and prompted me into sharing my opinion so I'm sure he'd be glad to join the conversation. He recently started an Ice monotype and found it too easy (the absolute guts) and now he's started an electro run while I'm starting my own fairy run. As for your research of the "optimal team" it would be super interesting to find 18 good teams for the E4 but as for the rest of the late game it does feel like switching stuff constantly has to be the correct solution for most runs, bar maybe a couple very good strategies like Hail teams or Swift Swim teams but maybe I'm wrong so who knows!

Before answering your questions I wanted to add another small note to my previous comments: While it is true that grass lack "efficient" setters, Grassy Terrain, Sunny Day and Growth are moves almost universally shared in the roster so it's easy having the right pokemon who can set up with powered up growth doubling atk or sp atk on a favored terrain or under chlorophyll effect, this is another effect of having a lot of choice. I used Hidden Power fire Venusaur Grassy Terrain growth and Roserade Weather Ball Growth Sunny Day to sweep Titania for example, one of the toughest gyms for the type that gets absolutely stomped by this small strategy, paired with other stuff to counter Klefki and Excadrill specifically.

To answer Cassandra's question to the best of my ability: Yes, I ended up having at least 4 out of 6 different pokemons for basically every single main battle past Charlotte but I do feel most of them shared some almost unremovable Pokemons. If I were to give you the most well rounded team to tackle most of the end game it would end up being something like: Serperior, Breloom, Physical Sceptile (focus sashes are the only thing keeping Serperior from sweeping the entire game in my opinion), Ferrothorn, Meganium and Venusaur. Unluckily this leaves out some amazing Pokemons like Whimsicott, Rotom, Chesnaught, Decidueye, Leafeon, Torterra, Ludicolo, Tangrowth, Tsareena, Lilligant, Cradily and so on, but you can clearly see that these Pokemon I mentioned still have their niches and are insanely good in some battles which get absolutely carried by them, the problem being they all have a very similar Pokemon counterpart in the main team I mentioned that outshines them in the versatility aspect. A small example is Swift Swim Ludicolo + Storm Drain Cradily who make Charlotte one of the easiest gyms in the game as long as you Blizzard with Abomasnow to shut down the Field. These kind of 3 pokes strategies have been the staple of my late game.

As for the other points you stated and things you asked, Whimsicott is a very swingy Pokemon who can end up solo carrying entire battles or being absolutely useless. Tailwind is best used paired with mons with mediocre speed but insane offensive stats, especially Breloom under Tailwind swept me many battles. Some other examples are Tsareena, Gogoat, the very same Venusaur, Decidueye and many others. Sunny Day + Encore can be super valuable against the many Alolan Ninetales you face in the game, making the last Glass Gauntlet a 2v1 battle for example. Taunt is another good move to cheese some doubles, much like Shiinotic's Spotlight can cruise you through some tough tough battles. By now I think you got the gist of it, Whimsicott is amazing in doubles, an absolute must bring that can outmaneuver half the game. Unluckily for him his single battle potential is very minimal with the only thing it can do being setting up Tailwind and being oneshot to ensure the longest possible duration of the buff but I think I used this strategy only once to ensure an outsped Spore on Breloom to set up a sword dance sweep and that's basically it.

You stated a very good point in Sceptile's versatility being basically its only saving grace. Movepool is nothing short of amazing and Dragon type stab on a super fast pokemon make Cal and Saphira in Labradorra manageable while otherwise being impossibly hard. His speed tier is basically unmatched, opening up some good possibility like placing his EVs on HP to ensure he doesn't get oneshot by prio moves while still being fast enough to outspeed basically anything once Unburden procs (giving up his mega is honestly not a big deal, Mega Sceptile is much worse than Mega Venusaur anyway and the added Dragon type has very niche uses). His stats are incredibly mediocre and he relies on at least two sword dances or sometimes even three work ups, making it very tedious to use and making Meganium with screens and grassy terrain his absolute inseparable buddy. All in all I hated using Sceptile from the bottom of my heart every single time but he still proved to be an irreplaceable asset.

What can I say about Jumpluff. He's a beast: Use seeds, baton pass swords dance Leafeon, whatever to buff his attack even just slightly and he will carry you through the entire first 2/3rds of the game.

[Cassandra]

15 hours ago, Whitelight said:

So I would like to piggyback onto this and say that those are some incredibly interesting strategies you bring up... I also want to say thank both of you so incredibly much for being active on this thread and sharing your experiences. I am nearing the close of the "first phase" of the mono project that I have been dreaming of for literally YEARS and I am getting more and more excited to tackle end game. 

 

I would also like to reach out to you akontistes, and see if you would like to join Cassandra and I on a project in the near future to determine an "optimal" end game team for each type! I think it would be fantastic to have as many viewpoints and opinions as we could get, especially since we each seem to have a niche type or two that we really enjoy building.

 

Also, I feel like Grass probably will end up moving up a bit after all since I hadn't really factored in much trick room usage, and I also hadn't given a ton of priority to berry and harvest strategies which probably would have made the run much easier. All the more reason why I appreciate yalls advice and feedback so much.

 

And a small update for me, I am currently on Samson in the water run, everything has been fairly smooth sailing so far after florinia who was a little more dicey than I would have liked. Swanna has been a surprising kingpin of my team with the flying support but I suppose that it will be trashed once I get my hands on gyrados. The one thing I have found a bit frustrating around the water type run is that it seems a lot of good water types are locked fairly far into the run... I finally can get my walrein and kindgra though so that is a big step in the right direction, but powerhouses like cloyster and golisopod (and of course the almighty magikarp) are unfortunately all the way in post renovation reborn :(

 

Oh and one last sidenote... for simplicity and speed I do play on switch battle mode and use items... and unfortunately have sometimes resorted to revive/toxic stalling and other such "degenerate" strategies. I am trying to get better about it, but I feel what I lack in strategic initiative sometimes, I try my best to make up for in sheer determination!

 

Your experience regarding Water-types is interesting, and it is largely in line with what I can remember and what I expected. Grass-types are weak to a lot (making them easier to counter) and not that common in the game, and Electric-types are a bit more common (especially in conjunction with the Factory Field/Short-Circuit Field, which I remember being a bit of an issue), but they are also often fairly manageable for reasons we have discussed at length earlier in this thread. It is thus not surprising that the game post-Florinia will get a bit easier, especially given the ridiculous number of team options the Water type gives you. Shell Smash is possibly the best boosting move in the game, so something like Omanyte or, of course, the ever-broken Cloyster will trivialize a lot of Singles battles. When in doubt, Sharpedo is probably also a great revenge killer (though I never used it). I know this is very late in the game, but I presume that the powerhouse that is Mega Swampert will also pull a lot of weight.

 

Also, don't worry about using items or using Switch mode – much like Akontistes, I also fight on Set mode and without items, but given the sheer speed with which you blaze through eighteen vastly different monotypes, I believe a bit of leeway in this regard is very much acceptable.

14 hours ago, Akontistes said:

Hey buddy, as Pokemon Challenges once said, if the game messes up with you, you have all the right in the world to mess up with it! Ain't no "degenerate" strategies in such a difficult game, there's only victory! I'll be gladly staying in touch with both of you, I recently made this account just to comment on this post cause I found your discussion to be incredibly interesting so feel free to reach out to me and we can share discord # or whatever. There's also another friend of mine with whom I frequently talk about strategies and Reborn monotypes as we've done 4 different ones in the two of us and we usually tackle tough battles together to come up with strategies. He's actually the one who linked me this post and prompted me into sharing my opinion so I'm sure he'd be glad to join the conversation. He recently started an Ice monotype and found it too easy (the absolute guts) and now he's started an electro run while I'm starting my own fairy run. As for your research of the "optimal team" it would be super interesting to find 18 good teams for the E4 but as for the rest of the late game it does feel like switching stuff constantly has to be the correct solution for most runs, bar maybe a couple very good strategies like Hail teams or Swift Swim teams but maybe I'm wrong so who knows!

Before answering your questions I wanted to add another small note to my previous comments: While it is true that grass lack "efficient" setters, Grassy Terrain, Sunny Day and Growth are moves almost universally shared in the roster so it's easy having the right pokemon who can set up with powered up growth doubling atk or sp atk on a favored terrain or under chlorophyll effect, this is another effect of having a lot of choice. I used Hidden Power fire Venusaur Grassy Terrain growth and Roserade Weather Ball Growth Sunny Day to sweep Titania for example, one of the toughest gyms for the type that gets absolutely stomped by this small strategy, paired with other stuff to counter Klefki and Excadrill specifically.

To answer Cassandra's question to the best of my ability: Yes, I ended up having at least 4 out of 6 different pokemons for basically every single main battle past Charlotte but I do feel most of them shared some almost unremovable Pokemons. If I were to give you the most well rounded team to tackle most of the end game it would end up being something like: Serperior, Breloom, Physical Sceptile (focus sashes are the only thing keeping Serperior from sweeping the entire game in my opinion), Ferrothorn, Meganium and Venusaur. Unluckily this leaves out some amazing Pokemons like Whimsicott, Rotom, Chesnaught, Decidueye, Leafeon, Torterra, Ludicolo, Tangrowth, Tsareena, Lilligant, Cradily and so on, but you can clearly see that these Pokemon I mentioned still have their niches and are insanely good in some battles which get absolutely carried by them, the problem being they all have a very similar Pokemon counterpart in the main team I mentioned that outshines them in the versatility aspect. A small example is Swift Swim Ludicolo + Storm Drain Cradily who make Charlotte one of the easiest gyms in the game as long as you Blizzard with Abomasnow to shut down the Field. These kind of 3 pokes strategies have been the staple of my late game.

As for the other points you stated and things you asked, Whimsicott is a very swingy Pokemon who can end up solo carrying entire battles or being absolutely useless. Tailwind is best used paired with mons with mediocre speed but insane offensive stats, especially Breloom under Tailwind swept me many battles. Some other examples are Tsareena, Gogoat, the very same Venusaur, Decidueye and many others. Sunny Day + Encore can be super valuable against the many Alolan Ninetales you face in the game, making the last Glass Gauntlet a 2v1 battle for example. Taunt is another good move to cheese some doubles, much like Shiinotic's Spotlight can cruise you through some tough tough battles. By now I think you got the gist of it, Whimsicott is amazing in doubles, an absolute must bring that can outmaneuver half the game. Unluckily for him his single battle potential is very minimal with the only thing it can do being setting up Tailwind and being oneshot to ensure the longest possible duration of the buff but I think I used this strategy only once to ensure an outsped Spore on Breloom to set up a sword dance sweep and that's basically it.

You stated a very good point in Sceptile's versatility being basically its only saving grace. Movepool is nothing short of amazing and Dragon type stab on a super fast pokemon make Cal and Saphira in Labradorra manageable while otherwise being impossibly hard. His speed tier is basically unmatched, opening up some good possibility like placing his EVs on HP to ensure he doesn't get oneshot by prio moves while still being fast enough to outspeed basically anything once Unburden procs (giving up his mega is honestly not a big deal, Mega Sceptile is much worse than Mega Venusaur anyway and the added Dragon type has very niche uses). His stats are incredibly mediocre and he relies on at least two sword dances or sometimes even three work ups, making it very tedious to use and making Meganium with screens and grassy terrain his absolute inseparable buddy. All in all I hated using Sceptile from the bottom of my heart every single time but he still proved to be an irreplaceable asset.

What can I say about Jumpluff. He's a beast: Use seeds, baton pass swords dance Leafeon, whatever to buff his attack even just slightly and he will carry you through the entire first 2/3rds of the game.

So first of all, I think I interacted with that friend you mentioned on Reddit yesterday (in this thread, to be specific), and it was rather enlightening. The idea that Ice is a bit easy is something I have become more and more convinced of the more other monotypes I've tried, to be honest, which I found a bit difficult to acknowledge because I thought it was a fair challenge (probably around the middle of a ranking) but not a huge one, but given struggles I had with other types and how smoothly so much of my PULSE2 run went so far, I feel inclined to view Ice as definitely being one of the easier monotypes (though me being used to the type definitely plays a part in that). To your point about switching team members up from time to time, I consistently ran the same team starting a bit after Shade all the way up until city restoration (and I am continuing into the late game with just one permanent replacement that became possible post-restoration), and on my first postgame run with an Ice-type team, I did not make any modifications to my team up until I got access to Kyurem very much near the end (though my downright moronic decision to ditch Jynx made a few battles harder than they needed to be), so it is definitely possible; changing up team members as necessary is most certainly more strategically salient, though.

 

Your elaboration on the Grass type really makes me feel that its wide array of strategic options is among its greatest strengths; Grassy Terrain is also a very powerful strat allows you to nullify field disadvantages, though I think Grassy Terrain is probably the least broken of the four terrains, if only because the Fire-type boost can be a double-edged sword (especially if the opponent carries Heat Wave). As for Whimsicott, I agree with you that Doubles is the format in which it really shines; I found it super hard to decide on just a few support moves given all that this Pokemon has access to, but I liked running Memento to make it less hopeless in Singles, allowing it to soften up the opponent with a priority move if weakened. Mega Sceptile has always felt like a bit of a joke to me in comparison to Mega Swampert or Mega Blaziken, carrying a near useless ability (wow, it takes 0x rather than 0.25x damage from Electric-type moves! That permits some very niche Doubles shenanigans at best.) and gaining arguably the worst STAB type in the game upon mega evolving, meaning it cannot even make use of its stellar Speed and Special Attack. Its uses above regular Sceptile are definitely extremely niche, but the latter's expansive movepool definitely makes me feel like I discounted it a bit prematurely. And yeah, our appreciation of Jumpluff certainly is a point of agreement – brute-forcing things with Leech Seed, Sleep Powder, and Substitute was my response to a great deal of intense Rejuvenation's insanity.

 

[Whitelight]

Ok so I have set up a discord server for us to strategize on and such, my username is Whitelight#7487 if you wanna send me a friend request and we can add members from there and organize a bit more! I figure we can kind of just come to a consensus on how we wanna set it up once we get in the server. Hoping that we get to have a ton more good discussion about all this good stuff! 

[Akontistes]

12 hours ago, Cassandra said:

Your experience regarding Water-types is interesting, and it is largely in line with what I can remember and what I expected. Grass-types are weak to a lot (making them easier to counter) and not that common in the game, and Electric-types are a bit more common (especially in conjunction with the Factory Field/Short-Circuit Field, which I remember being a bit of an issue), but they are also often fairly manageable for reasons we have discussed at length earlier in this thread. It is thus not surprising that the game post-Florinia will get a bit easier, especially given the ridiculous number of team options the Water type gives you. Shell Smash is possibly the best boosting move in the game, so something like Omanyte or, of course, the ever-broken Cloyster will trivialize a lot of Singles battles. When in doubt, Sharpedo is probably also a great revenge killer (though I never used it). I know this is very late in the game, but I presume that the powerhouse that is Mega Swampert will also pull a lot of weight.

 

Also, don't worry about using items or using Switch mode – much like Akontistes, I also fight on Set mode and without items, but given the sheer speed with which you blaze through eighteen vastly different monotypes, I believe a bit of leeway in this regard is very much acceptable.

So first of all, I think I interacted with that friend you mentioned on Reddit yesterday (in this thread, to be specific), and it was rather enlightening. The idea that Ice is a bit easy is something I have become more and more convinced of the more other monotypes I've tried, to be honest, which I found a bit difficult to acknowledge because I thought it was a fair challenge (probably around the middle of a ranking) but not a huge one, but given struggles I had with other types and how smoothly so much of my PULSE2 run went so far, I feel inclined to view Ice as definitely being one of the easier monotypes (though me being used to the type definitely plays a part in that). To your point about switching team members up from time to time, I consistently ran the same team starting a bit after Shade all the way up until city restoration (and I am continuing into the late game with just one permanent replacement that became possible post-restoration), and on my first postgame run with an Ice-type team, I did not make any modifications to my team up until I got access to Kyurem very much near the end (though my downright moronic decision to ditch Jynx made a few battles harder than they needed to be), so it is definitely possible; changing up team members as necessary is most certainly more strategically salient, though.

 

Your elaboration on the Grass type really makes me feel that its wide array of strategic options is among its greatest strengths; Grassy Terrain is also a very powerful strat allows you to nullify field disadvantages, though I think Grassy Terrain is probably the least broken of the four terrains, if only because the Fire-type boost can be a double-edged sword (especially if the opponent carries Heat Wave). As for Whimsicott, I agree with you that Doubles is the format in which it really shines; I found it super hard to decide on just a few support moves given all that this Pokemon has access to, but I liked running Memento to make it less hopeless in Singles, allowing it to soften up the opponent with a priority move if weakened. Mega Sceptile has always felt like a bit of a joke to me in comparison to Mega Swampert or Mega Blaziken, carrying a near useless ability (wow, it takes 0x rather than 0.25x damage from Electric-type moves! That permits some very niche Doubles shenanigans at best.) and gaining arguably the worst STAB type in the game upon mega evolving, meaning it cannot even make use of its stellar Speed and Special Attack. Its uses above regular Sceptile are definitely extremely niche, but the latter's expansive movepool definitely makes me feel like I discounted it a bit prematurely. And yeah, our appreciation of Jumpluff certainly is a point of agreement – brute-forcing things with Leech Seed, Sleep Powder, and Substitute was my response to a great deal of intense Rejuvenation's insanity.

 

Yes, that is his post! He ended up choosing Electric and he's enjoying the challenge, being a steep curve already in the early game according to him. Regarding Ice, having watched his half run I can't do anything but agree, it did look much easier than I was envisioning. I agree with all the other points you mentioned. Grassy Terrain especially being absolutely unusable against Fire types and Poison types (Sludge wave turns it into Corrupted Terrain which is, if possible, even worse than the Grassy Terrain on fire). Same can be said for Sunny Day but when you can use those moves to set up your sweepers it's a really good sight. Again, versatility is key for this monotype. Losing Unburden is the worst thing possible to happen to Sceptile as a whole, using Seeds and putting EVs on HP is a much better idea and that's what I did for the E4.

[jbastian1]

Kind of late to this discussion, so I don't know if anyone is keeping up with it currently but I am in the process of finishing up my Flying monotype run through and I have to say I am quite impressed. The hardest part of the game has to be the beginning with Julia just due to lack of early options. Even still, some early pokemon have great abilities to help you carry through like Super Luck Pidove. Additionally you have a good balance of physical and special attackers.

 

After Julia, there really isn't much of a challenge until you hit Blake. Ice Shard can do a number on you, but with a Charizard and Aerodactyl, you can take a surprising amount of his team down without much stress. Especially if you set up a tail wind to help counteract Slush Rush Sandshrew (same goes for Titania's), or if you use a Pelipper with drizzle you can just get rid of the hail. 

 

Hardy was a bit of a challenge because of Rock Slide, but having a tank like Gliscor who can Bulldoze alot of the team made life easier. Also Moxie Gyarados was amazing. My favorite pokemon is Aerodactyl who honestly carries so hard late game that you almost never need to switch out of him, especially if you use his mega evolution. Also, alot of the rock weakness can be countered with Swanna, Hawlucha, Pelipper, Tropius, etc. 

 

You don't really get access to much in the way of electric types, other than Emolga (bleh) but you really don't need it. The only gym electric really would benefit in is with Amaria, but using Gyarados with Moxie in that field actually still lets you steam roll, especially if you dragon dance. 

 

Honestly, I think I had an easier time doing the monotype playthrough than I did my standard base game with no type restrictions. Hell even the big guys like Ditto Arceus can be brought down with a Perish Song from Altaria. Speaking of Altaria, you also get two other amazing dragons: Dragonite and Salamence.

 

All in all, I have definitely had a blast with this run so far. The amount of team comps you can create for a mono flying run is impressive and its a fun sweeper-styled gameplay. Oh yeah, and did I mention you get access to one of the best healing moves ROOST... Yeah its a good time.