Kuro and Lucia are headed to Reborn!

[Amethyst]

The topic has come up in a couple different discussions around the forum now, most-recently in Adrienn's reveal topic, but today we're going to talk about MURDER!!! ethnocentrism.

First: What is ethnocentrism? Ethnocentrism is the centralization of one culture or group so that their presence is considered superior or the standard.

Wtf Ame, i didnt come here to learn five syllable words i dont care about, i come here for- A-pa-pa-pa--- stop.

let me esplain u a thing

Our modern culture is notoriously ethnocentric- specifically, Eurocentric. Everything revolves around Europe, and mainly around white people. This is a problem. If you are a person of colour, you should care about this because it directly impacts you, and if you're not, you should care about it because it still impacts you- not to mention the people around you.

Eurocentrism is virulent in our culture and most people don't even think about it. Think about the theatre- how many movies have white protagonists? ...How many have protagonists of colour? In fact, how many have coloured characters at all? Not... very... many.

But when you consider how many people of colour there are in the world versus caucasian people- the numbers tell a very different story.

In short, the media has a complete failure to adequately represent the coloured population. This is changing but very slowly. The pace needs to pick-up. Many children of colour grow up idolizing the white people on the silver screen instead of someone they can identify with. They grow up trying to fit into a culture where they feel like they should be white too. Representation influences the views we hold of other people. The effects are subtle but the implications are clear.

What does it tell you when almost every African-American voice actor for Disney before the year 2000 was hired to play the voice of an animal, not a human? What does it tell you when in the Harry Potter films Lavender Brown was portrayed as a black girl until the film where she had a speaking part- and she was suddenly replaced by a white actress? What does it tell you about a culture that's responds with outrage that the actress for Rue in the Hunger Games was black- ...when it says right in her description in the book that she was, in fact, coloured?

What it tells me is that something needs to change.

Unfortunately, I've become most aware of these issues only recently, long after the leaders were introduced to the online league. As a white girl, it wasn't something I ever thought about. It is with shame that I confess guilty to the allegation in the other topic that there is not a single significant character of colour introduced to the league so far. In fact- I daresay that it is the project's greatest failing.

However, it is something I am aware of, and so as I mentioned in a different topic a few days ago, I would like to introduce to you Reborn's new protagonists.

Kuro and Lucia will be joining our existing protagonists on the train bound for Reborn City starting in release 10.5

For current players who wish to switch over to these new protagonist appearances, I will probably include a temporary option to do so in the next release.

However! Not to be outdone by the newly drawn protagonists, our existing main characters, Vero and Alice have also received a sort of make-over. When I initially sprited the present protagonists I was attempting to keep to the old 3rd gen 8-bit style. Over the months I've moved away from that with a lot of the other sprites, so I figured it was time to bring the protagonists up to speed.

Finally! I wasn't planning to reveal the full graphics quite yet, but given the context of the previous discussion, I feel that that this is an appropriate time. It was mentioned previously that there hasn't even been a single character of colour in the league or game so far- and I recognised this some time ago. Accordingly, when deciding Sigmund's replacement, I took some extra care in whom I selected. In short, I was one step ahead of this discussion.

So now, at last, introducing the full profile of our new Electric Leader- DJ Arclight!

On an aside note I will also be continuing to redraw more of the 'standard' trainer classes in the game to coloured templates as well- I had talked about this before but I had been tardy in executing it. In short, Reborn needs to be more diverse, and it will be.

That's all for now- look forward to playing Kuro and Lucia in the upcoming 10.5!

A random afterthought... Up there, I said "Kuro and Lucia will be joining our existing protagonists on the train bound for Reborn City" ...

...Does that mean that all of the protagonists are on the train at the beginning? Therefore... Whichever player characters the player doesn't select stay on the train when it-- oh, dear... I'm so sorry...

[Manes]

Aww. I hoped he'd look more fabulous.

[The Radiant Aeon]

Umm....Brain does not Compute new protagonists and redesigns.

Must Activate sequence Codenamed "HYPE NOISE"

WEGTREAGWEKWAERYAWERJGARWEOGJARWEH^GHAINRWEHGAEHN^UGARWE

HNIGKEN%RAHGIARDSHGARWE^HGRIFAGRSHGARISGSARDHGEAIJRHGRFDHGAJERHGRAIEH

GRAESDIHGAERJHGAEIRHaRHAREOGARIHGAhgGARIHGAHGaRE

[Soleil]

I'm very happy with this, but I'd like to point out the fact that the reason most characters in movies are white is because movies are usually made in mostly white countries. There's no racism behind that...

In a video game however, ESPECIALLY a fangame of a series which is widely praised for its diversity of characters, it's kind of ridiculous not to have racial and gender (won't hesitate to say it, Reborn's a clam fest....) diversity... Without a proper story explanation anyway. I know this is an anime, not a video game, but take Attack on Titan for example. The reason everyone is white is because it takes place in Europe. If it took place in Africa, I'd expect everyone to be black. Which brings me back to the point I was making about movies...

But I digress. Ya' done good Ame.

[Amethyst]

I'd like to point out the fact that the reason most characters in movies are white is because movies are usually made in mostly white countries. There's no racism behind that...

If we were to assume that that the characters' race is an affect of the population then it should stand to reason that the races of characters in movies would be proportional to the racial breakdown of the population. This is not a correlation that has been observed.

(won't hesitate to say it, Reborn's a clam fest....)

I just tallied the total of gendered characters between both seasons of league and the game. With the addition of Arc, there are only two fewer males than females. I wouldn't call that a clam-fest, and even if it were, considering how male-dominated other things tend to be, I think that's fine.

If it took place in Africa, I'd expect everyone to be black.

Off the top of my head I can think of two Disney films that took place in Africa- The Lion King, and Tarzan. There were no coloured people in Tarzan. And obviously no people at all in The Lion King so that's whatever (however they did conscript exclusively African-American voices for the hyenas, which again portrays that race in a negative way (and on that note they used black actors for the apes in Tarzan too)).

Then again, I'm pretty sure it's common knowledge by now that Disney is pretty terrible with their racism, so this is old news.

[NeoDarklight]

While I completely understand your position on the matter of ethnocentrism, Ame, and agree on most of it, myself, you should probably keep in mind that Eurocentrism isn't the only ethnocentrism happening here in America. A distorted version of Afrocentrism does occur in some areas. And when I say distorted, I mean the negative stereotypes often associated with rappers and such. Fortunately, there are those who are trying to push it in a more positive direction. Unfortunately, they are less prevalent than those who are not. Then there's all those other ethnic groups as well. Can't forget about them. While I wouldn't say that some members of those communities are performing ethnocentrism of their own culture, or however the proper phrasing of that sentence is supposed to be, there will always be that one member of the community that takes things too far, regardless of race, religion, sex, orientation, or culture. So really, ethnocentrism isn't the root cause of itself, but something older, and much simpler, that I don't really know the name of because my conceptual cognition starts to break down here due to lack of background knowledge, so I'd really like anyone to point out the flaws in whatever it was I just said and please provide relevant information.

Sorry if I sounded offensive, but this is a problem my mom has to deal with in her school district, as a secondary effect of ethnocentrism is that, silly or racist as this may sound, one of the (insert placeholder word here because I can't think of the right one ATM) of a subsection of the African American community (this is where that distorted version of Afrocentrism comes in that I was saying earlier) that I do not even know if it has a name (the one with all the sexist rappers), is that an individual of African heritage shouldn't be intelligent or have a "white" lifestyle, because it's a betrayal of their African heritage. Yes, I know, it's stupid and racist, but it is, unfortunately, an actual thing that happens, especially in poorer communities with a high concentration of African Americans. One of my mom's students is an exceptionally bright individual whose only reason for acting stupid and failing school is that one. Stupid. (placeholder word).

So, all in all, ethnocentrism is worse than you thought? Damn, and I thought I was going off on a tangent there.

In other news, those new character sprites are totes bitchin'!

Edited November 25, 2013 by NeoDarklight

[Soleil]

This is the part where I leave before 'shots are fired', as people might say...I've had this arguement before, it's like talking to a stubborn parrot...

[NeoDarklight]

In retrospect, I should probably reword that last paragraph slightly, as I have probably been too broad there. Not trying to talk about the community as a whole, just a specific subsection of it that is exceptionally problematic in one of its (placeholder word). Will be editing for clarity shortly.

EDIT: Edited, but I still think I worded it incorrectly. In any case, I'm still not talking about the community as a whole, just a specific (placeholder word) of a specific subsection of said community. Really, the concept of racial "superiority" is something I cannot even fully comprehend. I have to take a semi-objective view because I can't empathize with any truly subjective view on the subject at all.

Edited November 25, 2013 by NeoDarklight

[Manes]

I'm not a big fan of black guys that try to look badass, personally. And DJ Arclight's look doesn't seem to suit at all. I'd prefer my DJs sleek and stylish (and Kuro and Lucia pull off the sleek look with aplomb, let me tell you). But that's just me.

Tell him to get a new haircut and some nice sleek clothes, and we'll call it square. Hey, Lady Gaga does it! So why not?

And there's no shame in admitting you're of some dominant ethnic majority. But then, I realize that there's a very subtle sense of guilt over your ethnic group having, in the past, instigated the genocide of at least three different ethnic groups followed by systematic derision to the survivors...

None of that seems relevant to me. When you're in a country where the color of your skin is a little different, and you spend most of your time isolated in body and mind... you kind of stop caring about people's skin colors. It's just an appearance trait to me by this point.

[NeoDarklight]

I'm not a big fan of black guys that try to look badass, personally. And DJ Arclight's look doesn't seem to suit at all. I'd prefer my DJs sleek and stylish (and Kuro and Lucia pull off the sleek look with aplomb, let me tell you). But that's just me.

Tell him to get a new haircut and some nice sleek clothes, and we'll call it square. Hey, Lady Gaga does it! So why not?

And there's no shame in admitting you're of some dominant ethnic majority. But then, I realize that there's a very subtle sense of guilt over your ethnic group having, in the past, instigated the genocide of at least three different ethnic groups followed by systematic derision to the survivors...

None of that seems relevant to me. When you're in a country where the color of your skin is a little different, and you spend most of your time isolated in body and mind... you kind of stop caring about people's skin colors. It's just an appearance trait to me by this point.

^This. Just... this.

[The Radiant Aeon]

The concept of Ethnocentrism never really came to me naturally, I admit. Forgive me for saying this but, I actually have little feelings towards it but annoyance. It never made sense why it happens, and to frank, I really don't care much. The problem with Ethnicity has spread ages ago, and is practically a product of human nature, or rather, biproduct. The Human Natures of culture and dominance's baby you might say. You take a group's way of life, expand it, and then they try to place it above all others. Whether it was the Egyptians of the ancients or the Europeans brought the African Slaves to the Americas, they all follow the same pattern. So now we reached a new era of civilization. Good. But racial supremacy still rages on. Like Ame said, Eurocentrism, or White Ethnic Dominance, or WED, still remains. And while I do admit I am proud she is trying to go against it with the new protagonists, that only spreads so far. One might say a little at a time is a thing, it is not EVERYTHING. And you know what? It still hardly matters, ethnicity. Whether you are are one race or another, you still are human. And my mental process of human life? You live. Then you die.

As for the designs, as robot me said.

TWRTSEYWZUAGHGTRHSTRHJRSHJTRJSTFGHJSYTXTYHJXTYGFJ

[Nyrias]

I'm not a big fan of black guys that try to look badass, personally. And DJ Arclight's look doesn't seem to suit at all. I'd prefer my DJs sleek and stylish (and Kuro and Lucia pull off the sleek look with aplomb, let me tell you). But that's just me.

Tell him to get a new haircut and some nice sleek clothes, and we'll call it square. Hey, Lady Gaga does it! So why not?

Arc's not going to change his appearance for one person.

Why would he? Not every DJ needs to look the same.

[Requieon]

It is with shame that I confess guilty to the allegation in the other topic that there is not a single significant character of colour introduced to the league so far. In fact- I daresay that it is the project's greatest failing.

While I like the new player sprites, I kinda feel your statement that its the "projects greatest failing" is a vast overstatement. As a black person, I didn't even notice the race thing in game, and quite frankly didn't care.( Not to say you shouldn't add the player sprites, that girl looks friggen awesome.) But most black people don't care throughout their lives as much as you did in that one post.

Also:

So really, ethnocentrism isn't the root cause of itself, but something older, and much simpler, that I don't really know the name of because my conceptual cognition starts to break down here due to lack of background knowledge

It's called monkey see, monkey do, or Unoriginal-as-fuck-ism, people act like what they see, and its often easier to act like someone who looks like you too. If the lead monkey's a moron, the followers turn out the same.(Like those kids outside my place after school talking all that yoloswag nonsense, go back in that school and learn some real words dammit.)

The crap rappers do is because easy money, and low effort, its easier to make a cookie cutter rap song with no content, than to come up with original content and expect to get paid. Brain dead consumers then consume without asking for quality, so, boom, shotty rap is what they get, rather than the stuff that USED to come out, with content.

Orrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr it's because the people chosen played the hyenas the way they were written the best. I highly doubt Disney put out the casting call saying "Black people only".

Dude, don't stick up for Disney, at least not old Disney, they had more issues in more places than most people have molecules in their bodies. Old Disney was racist, sexist,and perverted - and all out in the open with all of it. I wouldn't be shocked if they DID only look at black people for the Hyenas, seems right up their alley for that time period. Granted they don't do that now (not to my knowledge anyway), but they have a history with that kinda thing, and worse.

Finally, my opinion on Arclight's sprite. I dun like his hair. Sorry, I've never felt black people can pull off any shade of yellow, and he ain't changin' my opinion on the matter a lick. Love his outfit tho. The player sprites are made of badass, does that option to change also include an option to change gender? I wanna replace the save files with male sprites to the new girl, I love it.

[Neo]

Lion King came out in '94. Hardly old Disney when they were making shit like Angels in the Outfield at the time.

[Requieon]

Lion King came out in '94. Hardly old Disney when they were making shit like Angels in the Outfield at the time.

Old enough for my statement to stand. They were still in asshole mode until like...2000 damn near.

[Neo]

After Lion King was released, the only movie that has received criticism of any kind regarding Racism/Sexism was Pocahontas.
So(Trailing dots leading to nothing)

[Amethyst]

Sexism in Hercules; racism in Mulan; we were just talking about Tarzan, Atlantis was a blatant plagarism... Naaahh.

Granted with Hercules and Mulan they at least tried be anti-sexism in those (Megara's by far my favorite disney princess) but it became pretty convoluted.

Not really interested in continuing to argue petty specifics but the Lion King was not their last problem. In fact, hell, even Frozen is still getting criticism and- is it even out yet?

[AngelGozen]

I really like the new sprites and protagonists (Lucia and the white boy - which I didn't get the name if it was given - are my favorites), but while I agree that it is a good idea to let people have more choices on their looks ingame, since it is representative of themselves, I don't really believe that there should be any "quota" of representation of any kind of minority, whether it's in movies, tv shows, or whatever else you could think of.

I know in France, there are lots of discussions about this, such as "only 5% of tv presenters are black/arabic/...", or "there should be a 50/50 male and female representation in schools/universities/anythingelseyoucanthinkof", but no matter how hard I try, I just can't understand that.

Saying "I want only white people/black people" or saying "I want 60/40 men/women" or "50/50 human/alien" to me it just sounds the same.

Why can't we just forget about all this ? There is a 100% human representation everywhere, shouldn't that be all that matters ?

I'm not saying we shouldn't fight discriminations of any kind, of course we should and must. What I'm saying is sometimes I feel like we are overdoing it, by seeing discriminations where there are only statistics.

Edited November 25, 2013 by AngelGozen

[SJMistery]

To not cause ambiguities, when I said that it could be worse, i was meaning xe could have requested a tougher article, an X is not as hard to write.

I understand it may have caused mistakes, sorry.

[The Fush]

The remade and new trainer sprites look fucking amazing, Ame; I've seen better sprite work from you than most of the other ones I know of.

I'm not going to make any point on the argument about ethnicity and the like because, quite frankly, I've never given a damn as to whether someone is black or white since I frequently tend not to judge on appearance. Interpret me as ignorant if you will, but I've never really distinguished someone for ethnicity, sex or any of those regards, and that's that.

Side Note: I predict Arclight's gonna pull some rampant Drum n' Bass on us. I can feel it.

[Neo]

Ame, you card. Kuro means black in the japnez.

[Kingd353]

as awesome as it is that i can be black in reborn now did u really have to give it white hair? x.x .....

[Amethyst]

That's not why that was chosen to be his name, though.

[Conquest]

Digging the new and redone sprites.

[KillJoy3579]

Sweet. So are you also updating bot sprites?