Hardy's gym without audio?

[Risakisa]

I just entered Hardy's gym for the first time and, well.. how are people supposed to do it without audio, other than brute force or looking up a guide? Are people who, for whatever reason, can't hear whatever's being played just effed?

 

Obviously since it can be brute-forced, there's no hard requirement to being able to hear. But still, I would've expected some sort of.. leeway, I guess? for people who can't hear. Nevermind people who don't know musical notes or can't tell them apart.

 

I'm not demanding it should change, it's just rather jarring, given the, eh.. pro-diversity thing the devs are rocking. But it's kinda peeving that it's a puzzle that some people literally can't do without looking up the solution for or brute-forcing it.

 

(for the record, I'm mostly not deaf. I do however have hearing problems, and if I didn't have a guide I'd just give up until someone solved this gym for me)

Actually, I'm going to be somewhat more hostile than I intended: this puzzle is exactly the same as having a colour puzzle without consideration for colour-blind people. Taking the extra step so that a handful of people with disabilities can play your game is, IMO, a thing people should do if they can.

[SilverAngelus]

I had similar questions when trying the puzzle myself. Although, to be fair, if you battle the guy who gives you instructions on how to complete the gym puzzle (right up the rock climb point), he'll give you the needed solution if you win.

[Karvanha]

The NPC standing at the top left is the answer to all your problems. He gives you the complete solution to the puzzle

Edited May 20, 2022 by Lone Karvanha
Tone

[Lucifer Morningstar]

As someone who had to copy the solutions off Youtube, I half concur.

Hardy's as well as Radomus' gyms are not considerate of those without experience in specific and in the case of the latter complicated areas that require a lot of training and practice to master.  

 

Granted it's been at least a couple of years since I finished ep18 and I am continuing with the same save in ep19, if I recall while the NPC in Hardy's gym provides an alternative to the audio for the hearing impaired, it's still not made understandable to those who don't know music notes. Telling us that the first note is 'E' (again it's been a long time I don't remember what the notes were I'm just throwing one out at random to make an example of) doesn't tell us how to distinguish that particular note by sound or where to find it visually on the scales. 

 

The same can be said of Radomus' gym. Although Elias provides a tutorial on each chess piece and it's roles and significance, it was all Greek to me and the new team Chess roles mechanic adds a whole new level of difficulty for us Chess dunces. I'm glad I dodged that just as I managed to dodge the Slowking's Synthetic Seed (and thus was able to avoid its Trick Room with Taunt) because my save pre-dated those updates. Though I do find it interesting nonetheless. 

 

No worries I'm not salty and the guides out there pretty much cancel out the issue but it's good fortunate that this game is popular enough for guides to exist. I've played quite a few fan game for which this is not the case and Discord communities and showcase threads are not always reliable so difficulties figuring something out can be dead ends. 

 

Ironic you should also suggest a color based puzzle as Rejuvenation's first gym puzzle is just that and does have complete coverage for the color-blind in the form of a chart and examination dialogue that provides the solutions and informs what colors the player is interacting with in words (i.e "Do you want to add Blue?"). 

 

 

[Karvanha]

22 hours ago, Lucifer Morningstar said:

Granted it's been at least a couple of years since I finished ep18 and I am continuing with the same save in ep19, if I recall while the NPC in Hardy's gym provides an alternative to the audio for the hearing impaired, it's still not made understandable to those who don't know music notes. Telling us that the first note is 'E' (again it's been a long time I don't remember what the notes were I'm just throwing one out at random to make an example of) doesn't tell us how to distinguish that particular note by sound or where to find it visually on the scales.

The NPC also tells you "from left to right, the notes go low G, A, B, C, D, E, F, high G". That's why I said he gives you the complete solution. The only way you could have missed it is if you never tried to do it without a guide.

 

22 hours ago, Lucifer Morningstar said:

The same can be said of Radomus' gym. Although Elias provides a tutorial on each chess piece and it's roles and significance, it was all Greek to me and the new team Chess roles mechanic adds a whole new level of difficulty for us Chess dunces. I'm glad I dodged that just as I managed to dodge the Slowking's Synthetic Seed (and thus was able to avoid its Trick Room with Taunt) because my save pre-dated those updates. Though I do find it interesting nonetheless.

Yeah, I don't have anything to say in defense of the chess puzzle. I guess Ame just overestimated the amount of people that know chess these days. But it might be worth mentioning that besides the rules, the game also gives you feedback on your moves during the puzzle.

 

The Chess Arena field effects have nothing to do with knowledge of chess though. They do make the battle quite complicated, which is a double-edged sword as half of the players might love that and half of them hate it

[Lucifer Morningstar]

On 5/17/2022 at 9:47 PM, Lone Karvanha said:

The NPC also tells you "from left to right, the notes go low G, A, B, C, D, E, F, high G". That's why I said he gives you the complete solution. The only way you could have missed it is if you never tried to do it without a guide.

 

I don't recall if I tried it before consulting a guide, I can gracefully admit that I might not have, however, since submitting the last post I have watched it in ep19 and noticed the scales are now labeled with the notes which was not the case in ep18 and is not just further helpful but 100% guarantees that it is solvable for those who don't know music without an external guide.  

 

On 5/17/2022 at 9:47 PM, Lone Karvanha said:

Yeah, I don't have anything to say in defense of the chess puzzle. I guess Ame just overestimated the amount of people that know chess these days. But it might be worth mentioning that besides the rules, the game also gives you feedback on your moves during the puzzle.

 

That's a valid point. 

I understand that Chess does not have the linear structure or straightforwardness of a music scale but rather incorporated in a Pokemon game is more or less a strategy recursion and as such can not be spelled out as plainly. I believe Ame did to her best to provide assistance to those who don't know Chess.

 

Therefore it has to come down to Ame overestimating Chess's popularity or considering that out of the handful of Youtubers I watch only one needed to copy the answers from another Youtube video, perhaps she favored the majority which admittedly does make some sense.  

 

Additionally, I appreciate how Radomus' character is largely built around Chess logic and would not support that being changed just so some people don't have to struggle with Chess.