Is there some balance in the game to all the early edginess?

[Sardeed]

I'm not averse to edginess but Reborn has so much edge that you get a cut even with protective gear.

 

Reborn goes for the realistic depiction of a Pokémon world which works quite well but fails miserably in other places.

It has the problem of having serious stuff happening but lacking responses, the first thing you witness is a terrorist attack on a train you barely escape killing dozens of people, and with a woman grieving her lost fiance right around the corner, that wouldn't be so bad to hammer home that team Meteor means business. the people are down and there are homeless and street urchins all around, city looks like shit. 

 

All fair and good, now you find out that the team meteor plans some shit and charges the place, good time for some payback, the first battle you defeat the grunt, and...he surrenders and you let him go free of charge?

Yeah, mons defeated fights over what can you do carry-on villain until we meet later after you trained some more, ah who cares for the griefing survivors of your terror attacks.

 

That is the problem here, it happens again and again, the story emphasizes how everything is in the gutters but the people that are responsible just get a slap on the wrist and can go on, it feels needlessly edgy with how shit everything is and actively points it out but does not carry through with its tone and falls back into the pokemon trope were the baddies are more useless, which is a problem since in the normal games the evil guys are just bumbling bafoons, not murderous terrorists.

 

Most NPCs are either neutral or downtrodden and it gets emphasized how many people died through all of that and I only reach the part where you look for the doc for the 3 gym leaders.

 

Every second NPC has some tragic backstory or lost someone close to them but when it comes down to a point where you would be recommended to cause death the game chickens out and goes, nooooo this is pokemon you can not kill the baddy.

 

You for some reason meet all the gym leaders and shake hands with them like somebody wanted to show you all the coll OC they created.

 

What now broke the camel's back was the scene in the asylum with the doc you needed for the 3rd gym leader, like the moment the young women stormed out I knew shit is going to be edgy,

And lo and behold the NPC tell me they are gym leaders and the women on the run are an elite four, but since they are under 18 they need to stay here and the doc gives them"therapy" with an electric pokemon and is for sure not a crazy german scientist that does human experiments, they straight up talk about how he very well killed people, how is this guy still in business and not behind bars?

 

If shit is going down then the world needs to react accordingly in its response.

 

The idea of such an asylum would not be bad but adding it on top of the grimdark world turns it into edgy stuff, it is just too much, you need a certain balance for things to work, either good and bad balanced, full-on happiness like in mainline pokemon or grimdark through and through.

 

This game feels like the grimdark version of the uncanny valley, it went too far in but not far enough and turned edgy.

 

If you defeat the team meteor guys, knock them out for later clean-up or straight up kill them not let them run away, and you should need to reload if you lose against an "evil" person not start over in the poke center.

 

I like the realistic depiction of a world with pokemon but it is kinda immersion breaking if you can say: "I bet he is evil or does evil shit", and be correct 9 out of 10 times.

 

I read that large swaths of stories from the game are created through the forum and real-life stuff of their people, but if you only gather the bad that happens in one place it makes it not better quality-wise.

 

So now my question is, does it get better later on or stay in this uncanny valley of grim darkness?

Because the game is good and the fights are satisfyingly hard but I'm running out of bandages.

[Dred]

are you done?

[OrigamiPhoenix]

It actually feels more NobleDark to me. Even in the early game there's hints here and there that things may be shit, but there are still some helpful people.

 

As for capturing Meteor members, it's not like you have cuffs and can sit on them waiting for a cop that will never come - you have things to do and a lot of more them to stop generally anytime you encounter Team Meteor. Granted, it is a bit of ludonarrative dissonance with some of your defeats sending you to a Center, but that's just how it has to work - the game doesn't punish you losing for those sorts of fights, at least.

 

People have become trapped in so-called psychiatric facilities and orphanages in real life, and while it's supposed to be aggravating and blood-boiling, I wouldn't call it GrimDerp or edgy. He is legally the guardian of them because he runs the orphanage, and what he is doing - administrating electroshock therapy without consent - presumably isn't illegal because he's also their doctor. Orderlies admit that they don't like it, and Lapis Ward residents complain about the screams, but they don't actually bring themselves to do anything about it.

 

It would be spoilers to tell you anything more, but if you really insist:

Spoiler

Around halfway through the game, the city gets a huge uplift. There's also quite a few sequences where you'll question your own assessment on how to "take care of" Meteor members. Your mileage may vary depending on your story route.

 

Edited July 28, 2022 by OrigamiPhoenix
fixing spoilers

[Sardeed]

6 hours ago, Dred said:

are you done?

Do you bring anything useful to the table, if not don't bother replying.

I want an actual discussion with people to see what they think and to inform myself if it keeps that overedge tone.

 

5 minutes ago, OrigamiPhoenix said:

It feels more NobleDark to me. Even in the early game there's hints here and there that things may be shit, but there are still some helpful people.

 

As for capturing Meteor members, it's not like you have cuffs and can sit on them waiting for a cop that will never come - you have things to do and a lot of more them to stop generally anytime you encounter Team Meteor. Granted, it is a bit of ludonarrative dissonance with some of your defeats sending you to a Center, but that's just how it has to work - the game doesn't punish you losing for those sorts of fights, at least.

 

People have become trapped in so-called psychiatric facilities and orphanages in real life, and while it's supposed to be aggravating and blood-boiling, I wouldn't call it GrimDerp or edgy. He is legally the guardian of them because he runs the orphanage, and what he is doing - administrating electroshock therapy without consent - presumably isn't illegal because he's also their doctor. Orderlies admit that they don't like it, and Lapis Ward residents complain about the screams, but they don't actually bring themselves to do anything about it.

 

It would be spoilers to tell you anything more, but if you really insist:

  Reveal hidden contents

Around halfway through the game, the city gets a huge uplift. There's also quite a few sequences where you'll question your own assessment on how to "take care of" Meteor members. Your mileage may vary depending on your story route.

 

Like i said i have no problem with dark and edgy stuff but the dissonance is far too strong in this game, if i found terrorists and defeated them then i would make sure that they can not run away, like the fake elderly couple of the daycare, you defeat them and they just go, "damn you won, whatever we already got lots of pokemon, seee yaaa!" why not stop them with your pokemon, a pokemon is a literal living weapon.

 

yes, people being trapped in an asylum is realistic but nobody checking up on it is not realistic and feels like it get pushed into the dark area for darkness' sake and turns edgy for that reason.

It simply makes no ingame sense to be that dark to this level if it is so obvious for all to see, and why can i not just free them, i have literal walking weapons with me that are capable of razing buildings and destroying walls.

 

In the mainline games everything can be fixed with pokemon since they are the only real tools/weapons in pokemon and the world works around them, the game shpws off all the angsty edge and suffering and gives you the tools to stop it but does not allow you to use them just so it can create more edge later on, normally the  "evil" people to something mean you give them a beating and all is good.

 

Like why do the cops die if they easily could have 6 pokemon with at least level 25 unless they have badges too or does the badge system even apply to them since it probably does not apply to team meteor?

The is literally no reason to just have 1 growlith, like take 1 growlith like a police dog with you but take your own pokemon too, get a couple of pokemon for specific reasons like a big flyer , digger, a strong one, and a swimmer to make sure you can help in most situations.

 

Like what happened to Corey and his suicide, his wife was killed for a ring and then instead of giving them the ring or destroying it he went rogue to protect his daughter and started working with them after all came out he kills himself, why do that if you can just openly resist from now on, worst case you die but take a couple of them with you, now nobody is there to protect his daughter that has said ring that killed his wifem he went " awww they found out, better kill myself to make it harder for the good gys including my daughter to fight against team meteor, splatt", and what about her feelings, sure they parted in anger but she will be hurt....don't tell me there will be a later storyline were she is grieving her father's death and how their last words were mean to each other.

 

 

[OrigamiPhoenix]

1 hour ago, Sardeed said:

Like what happened to Corey and his suicide, his wife was killed for a ring and then instead of giving them the ring or destroying it he went rogue to protect his daughter and started working with them after all came out he kills himself, why do that if you can just openly resist from now on, worst case you die but take a couple of them with you, now nobody is there to protect his daughter that has said ring that killed his wifem he went " awww they found out, better kill myself to make it harder for the good gys including my daughter to fight against team meteor, splatt", and what about her feelings, sure they parted in anger but she will be hurt....don't tell me there will be a later storyline were she is grieving her father's death and how their last words were mean to each other.

 

Okay, now that is completely missing the point. Corey's first priority is to protect Heather. He can't win a fight against them, and Team Meteor threatens his daughter's safety if he opposes them, so he straight up can't win by doing that, thus he joins them while coerced. They don't know she has the Ruby Ring until the relevant story events. He'll do anything to protect Heather, and for reasons you don't know yet, giving up the Ruby Ring is also an invalid answer, even if it would help stop the coercion. (It wouldn't.) Hiding it will just result in Meteor further coercing them.

 

Corey was stuck between a rock and a hard place because of his own love for his daughter. He removed himself from the equation because he knows what he would choose, no matter what: His daughter. The power Team Meteor holds over the both them ensures that he would always be their puppet. Rather than continue letting himself be used by Team Meteor when he knows he can't give up his daughter or the ring, he entrusts responsibility for both to someone who can't be manipulated by Meteor and has already proven themselves stronger: You.

Edited July 28, 2022 by OrigamiPhoenix

[DexZet]

The world of Pokémon is filled with too many plot holes that it is near to impossible to make a story set in it to make sense all around. Humanity surviving in a world filled with monsters with supernatural power? When you look at things too realistically the story has too many flaws. Working on that base is often difficult and there will be too many flaws. The morality of their universe would be far different from our own.

Spoiler

Charloette believing herself to be responsible for the fire that killed her parents is a bit strange for me, as we learn that their parents are high ranking leaders who often deal with Fire due to their Field Effects and she is also aware of the fact(I really want to know if there is an actual explanation that can be given for this except for Sigmund).

The story in my opinion is a lot less edgy than its earlier stages. My approach to most fangames would be to not look too much into the story as it would at some point stop making sense. In the post game it would hit a point where you either hate it or love it. The story isn't too important of a factor of the game if you wish to just play for the difficulty. So I feel like even if you are uncomfortable with the story the game is still pretty good and overall provides a satisfactory ending.

[Nagnesar]

6 hours ago, DexZet said:

 

  Hide contents

Charloette believing herself to be responsible for the fire that killed her parents is a bit strange for me, as we learn that their parents are high ranking leaders who often deal with Fire due to their Field Effects and she is also aware of the fact(I really want to know if there is an actual explanation that can be given for this except for Sigmund).

 

Spoiler

I believe that they actually died in the fire. They were asleep and probably dead by smoke before they could even wake up.

 

[Sardeed]

On 7/28/2022 at 10:13 AM, OrigamiPhoenix said:

 

Okay, now that is completely missing the point. Corey's first priority is to protect Heather. He can't win a fight against them, and Team Meteor threatens his daughter's safety if he opposes them, so he straight up can't win by doing that, thus he joins them while coerced. They don't know she has the Ruby Ring until the relevant story events. He'll do anything to protect Heather, and for reasons you don't know yet, giving up the Ruby Ring is also an invalid answer, even if it would help stop the coercion. (It wouldn't.) Hiding it will just result in Meteor further coercing them.

 

Corey was stuck between a rock and a hard place because of his own love for his daughter. He removed himself from the equation because he knows what he would choose, no matter what: His daughter. The power Team Meteor holds over the both them ensures that he would always be their puppet. Rather than continue letting himself be used by Team Meteor when he knows he can't give up his daughter or the ring, he entrusts responsibility for both to someone who can't be manipulated by Meteor and has already proven themselves stronger: You.

But him killing himself does not make it better, he is literally endangering his daughter now even more, him passing the torch to me is like saying soldiers are useless because some champion exists, and the level of his pokemon is clearly not an indicator for his strength and just there for gameplay reasons, so he is still a capable person stronger then most people.

 

You say he will always be their puppet and explain because of coercion against the daughter so his solution is to kill himself so they can start coercion his daughter instead of him?

And they now know she has the ruby ring so he offed himself at the worst moment.

Simply fight back or die trying instead of jumping of a cliff, his daughter is now in more danger than ever.

If they had some mind control / multiple personality shit going that could reactivate any time then yes his solution would be the best, but in the current circumstances, it is the literal worst way to do stuff.

 

 

On 7/28/2022 at 6:41 PM, DexZet said:

The world of Pokémon is filled with too many plot holes that it is near to impossible to make a story set in it to make sense all around. Humanity surviving in a world filled with monsters with supernatural power? When you look at things too realistically the story has too many flaws. Working on that base is often difficult and there will be too many flaws. The morality of their universe would be far different from our own.

  Reveal hidden contents

Charloette believing herself to be responsible for the fire that killed her parents is a bit strange for me, as we learn that their parents are high ranking leaders who often deal with Fire due to their Field Effects and she is also aware of the fact(I really want to know if there is an actual explanation that can be given for this except for Sigmund).

The story in my opinion is a lot less edgy than its earlier stages. My approach to most fangames would be to not look too much into the story as it would at some point stop making sense. In the post game it would hit a point where you either hate it or love it. The story isn't too important of a factor of the game if you wish to just play for the difficulty. So I feel like even if you are uncomfortable with the story the game is still pretty good and overall provides a satisfactory ending.

The thing is if I play something I play it fully story and all, and yeah pokemon has plotholes but since pokemon is kinda like hovering on soft clouds when it comes to consequences it is fine, nobody suffers nobody dies all around soft and rounded logic which makes it far easier to immerse yourself and with a willing suspension of disbelief, but if hard and real topics break into the story while lots of round logic still exists, like all the terrorist trainers just not getting offed and just wandering to the next area, it is hard and charing to see the two clash against each other, and in that way help highlight the edgyness of the other elements, you are basically on a theme park ride of misery and suffering for the people around while team meteor are the staff manning the attractions and displays, which no longer makes it realistic and feels artificially dark, aka edgy.

[Egzample]

On 7/28/2022 at 1:19 AM, Dred said:

are you done?

halfway through the post I thought the same - like, dude, the poster is more edgy than the whole reborn combined.

[Vilrose]

On 7/28/2022 at 12:44 AM, Sardeed said:

You for some reason meet all the gym leaders and shake hands with them like somebody wanted to show you all the coll OC they created.

 

I would be lying if I said that I hadn't had that feeling too.

There's a point in the game where you start to meet all the gym leaders in a row, who are all part of the same families.

I found that quite hard to digest. The world isn't that small.

 

On 7/28/2022 at 12:44 AM, Sardeed said:

If you defeat the team meteor guys, knock them out for later clean-up or straight up kill them not let them run away, and you should need to reload if you lose against an "evil" person not start over in the poke center.

 

Without necessarily going so far as to kill them, it would have been nice if after the defeat of certain Meteor minions by our hands, they could have been knocked out.

Simply by changing sprites.

But not all of them, only the most useless, because npc's are great sources of lore information. Let's use some Spinarak given by the police to tie them up ahah.
That would be a pretty funny mod idea.

 

Now, let's remain constructive, every story there is has its own weak points, and the longer it goes on, the more it is likely to have.

If I had trouble with the wave of characters to meet in a minimum time, I can understand the desire to want to show all the characters quickly to give the player/reader/viewer time to get attached to them.

And if the story has its weak points, it remains nonetheless qualitative, touching, funny, and epic.

Nothing is ever all black or all white.

 

Vil'

Edited August 17, 2022 by Vilrose