Chevaleresse Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 (Not sure where this goes. Move it to the right section, please.) The titular question. It seems like most of the people here really don't like Smogon for whatever reason. Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Summer Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 Nope, you're in the wrong website. Here, 4chan.org/vp/ We're another society, and we're okay with smogon. If you're talking tiers we like to be different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flux Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 I don't hate them. I think they're an amazingly helpful reference. Granted, I may not always agree with their sets, but people are entitled to their opinion. Also, I've never gotten that impression on this site. If people do dislike them, it's their own choice, though. Many people dislike when people copy Smogon's sets wholeheartedly, but I don't have a problem with that. Also, a real hater is here: http://www.serebiiforums.com/showthread.php?612793-What-s-the-deal-with-Smogon That should give a good idea why people might hate Smogon. I don't agree, but hey, it's his opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Amethyst Posted December 4, 2013 Administrators Share Posted December 4, 2013 Well, I have some gripe with them but thats just because they denied permission for their sprites... *grumble grumble* Aside from that, we disagreed with a lot of the ideas they had about tiering last gen so we deviated from them. We may or may not do the same this gen; we'll see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noivy Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 Back when Smogon still existed on PO, the people we would get as a result of the occasional crashes drove just about everyone and their mother here crazy. They'd attack our tiers, get real upset about it, and spout English that made me want to kick a whole litter of rare endangered baby wolf puppies. Some of their members have left a foul taste in my mouth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godot Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 The thing that irritates me is when people take their words as law... Blazekin is so Uber! Mega Gengar is so OP! ... ya those pokemon are powerful, but when people shit on us because we don't ban them and Smogon does... then it becomes a Problem. It normally starts with people forcing their opinions on us and getting upset because we don't always agree. A lot of us think that, but have some... incorrect methods of expressing that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapphire Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 (edited) I hate Smogon because a) they have stupid tiers which they pick in stupid ways, and don't reverse even when 99% of the userbase is against it, b ) they're all arrogant, and c) We'll be here all day so I'll stop at 2. Edited December 4, 2013 by Secundum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomas Elliot Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 (edited) I am actually the worst member of this forum because I think Smogon's banlist is mostly right, and that Blaziken in particular is absurdly broken and should be banned No but seriously, I find this whole "hate" thing absolutely stupid, no offense meant for anyone. I mean, they are arrogant and childish for going around saying that they are the only ones who understand Pokemon and that everyone should follow their directions, but those who go around saying how much they hate Smogon are not better... Also because generalizing an entire community is something very stupid to do, the people like those Noivy was referring to are rarely seen on the actual forum at all, and in general I can say, from direct experience, that the people who can really be called "the Smogon community", as in those who actively contribute to it on the forum, are much more mature/kind/clever than one may think judging only from the random childish idiots on the old PO server (and on Showdown nowadays for that matters)... Which by the way is true for every community, from PO beta to Reborn itself: if any of you have spent more than 10 minutes on Reborn server, you will know that it is regularly taken by storm by random noobs who are like "where get starter", "anyone batallar" and "lol this game sucks you cannot play". Would you judge Reborn only basing on that, and claim this community is full of random noobs? I don't think so. Tl;dr: generalizing is a bad thing. P.S.: if someone back in my PO Beta days had told me that one day I would have been the one defending Smogon's community in a discussion, I would have probably laughed... Edited December 4, 2013 by Tomas Elliot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 (edited) I hate Smogon because a) they have stupid tiers which they pick in stupid ways, and don't reverse even when 99% of the userbase is against it, they're all arrogant, and c) We'll be here all day so I'll stop at 2. The thing that irritates me is when people take their words as law... Blazekin is so Uber! Mega Gengar is so OP! ... ya those pokemon are powerful, but when people shit on us because we don't ban them and Smogon does... then it becomes a Problem. It normally starts with people forcing their opinions on us and getting upset because we don't always agree. A lot of us think that, but have some... incorrect methods of expressing that... ^spot on. I think they have an amazing wealth of information on competitive battling but the amount of fighting and arrogance drives me nuts but I do confess I lurked around on smogon before moving on. never posted anything there though because I didnt want to get into online verbal warfare. Its just unfortunate that some smart people have an ego that can only be satisfied by excercising there right as a keyboard warrior. Variation is good and keeps the game fun, we all don't have to use the same sets or things would just be predictable. where i think me and most smogon minds differ is a set shouldnt be used to maximise the pokemons individual effectiveness but rather the teams and this is where I think the oppurtunity for creativity lies. I use a curse rest talking goodra and smogonites can cry about it not having an assault vest when i kick there ass on wi-fi. Edited December 4, 2013 by Bear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marissa Posted December 26, 2013 Share Posted December 26, 2013 Because they make troll pages? http://www.smogon.com/bw/pokemon/unown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpfight5 Posted December 26, 2013 Share Posted December 26, 2013 Because they make troll pages? http://www.smogon.com/bw/pokemon/unown Aww please don't tell me you don't like this, it's awesome! Personally I don't mind Smogon. Think about it in an exploit sorta way. A lot of people copy the most popular Smogon sets word for word. So if you understand these and figure out the counters, there's a good chance you'll be a cut above those who copy them. Think about it, how many bulky Alakazams have you seen? Imagine a competitively viable bulky Alakazam (I don't know if one exists). One of those things would completely catch the opponent by surprise. So my trick is using smogon to know what not to use. Maybe it's not as huge of a threat as before, but one of the biggest factors in Pokemon is prediction. If you can predict accurately you're guaranteed to do much better than just having several strong pokemon with good sets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Amethyst Posted December 26, 2013 Administrators Share Posted December 26, 2013 Pfft, the Unown page is one of the few reasons I do like them >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Posted December 26, 2013 Share Posted December 26, 2013 I hate Smogon because a) they have stupid tiers which they pick in stupid ways, and don't reverse even when 99% of the userbase is against it, b ) they're all arrogant, and c) We'll be here all day so I'll stop at 2. A good few of them may be arrogant, but your post smells with the stench of hypocrasy in that regard. Their tiers are arranged by usage minus a few exceptions, as are PO's, as are almost all tier lists. Calling that stupid would be calling a good portion of all metagames stupid and therefore a very ignorant statement. I have no problems with Smogon, if anything you can thank them for competitive pokemon being as popular as it is. My problem is that people tend to gravitate towards the top tier mons/teams, but then again that has nothing to do with Smogon but rather people wanting to win above all else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anethia Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 Smogon just has those arrogant people - not all of them are, but a good chunk of em, and that deters me. Plus, they do act as if they have final say. But, tbh, nobody else really took up the job Smogon did, so who would we be to complain? We can disagree and make our own, but there's no denying if Smogon hadn't done what it did, we might not be this far in competitive battling. Just my view, take it with a grain of salt and if it's uterly stupid, disregard it entirely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Desire Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 Only time I ever disagreed with there tier list is when they ban something that I love abusing << Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rimmintine Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 I was p'd off when I found out they banned Mega Gengar. I'd trained one a few weeks before they banned. Well you know what? Using it anyway. Suck it Smogon, I love you. Other than that it is useful for creating teams, but some of the moves you put on competitive pokemon should be obvious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapphire Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 If you trained one why bother caring what they say? They have zero say over the wifi rules, and surprisingly to some, the wifi playerbase is 100-1000 times the simulator one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 If you trained one why bother caring what they say? They have zero say over the wifi rules, and surprisingly to some, the wifi playerbase is 100-1000 times the simulator one. While your arguement does have some validity, you're still being closed-minded. Smogon themselves may not have any say over offcial Wifi rulings, but if a community, such as say PokeCommunity or Serebii, uses their rules for their tournies and leagues, then you are required to follow said rules even if you're playing on the DS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyaradoskiller Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 Because they make troll pages? http://www.smogon.com/bw/pokemon/unownHilarious shit right there!Nope, you're in the wrong website.Here, 4chan.org/vp/We're another society, and we're okay with smogon.If you're talking tiers we like to be different.This goes for all of you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 I don't actually dislike smogon but rather the people who use smogon as their pokemon bible, the be all and end all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnar Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Because they make troll pages? http://www.smogon.com/bw/pokemon/unown I'm getting real tired of your shit smogon XD but yeah mostly of competitive play(especially when your favorite pokemon is in a different tier and people are like you can't use that cause smogon blah blah blah OP OP OP derp derp derp). just a word..screw around with your friends/casual play about this tiers and shits(you can do what you want!)...but not with other competitive play/players out there cause you know for the sake of competition and their set of rules and such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaunt Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 I personally don't dislike Smogon (maybe because i wasn't on Reborn at the time), usually i use it for reference in team making (but i disagree with some of their sets), i even played on showdown for a while but then i got tired of all those arrogant people calling me a noob (and other "not very nice" words ) when they win or ragequit when they don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jory Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Smogon has more staff to do research. It's like trying to build an F-16 in your garage before a fully equipped production plant can. Sure it's possible, but is it really worth the effort when they already have an excellent system in place that is proven to work and can simply be slightly modified in order to make it more agreeable? The answer is no. That was a rhetorical question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tru Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 I've wondered this too. Interesting responses hmm, i think i understand better now. Personally I'm a big fan of smogon. I don't feel like any of their decisions on bans are unreasonable or unjustified considering they make their decisions based on facts and statistics rather than base them on opinions. I do think it's unwise to just copy smogon sets all the time because you really limit yourself and as others have said, smogon doesn't always have the best sets on their website. I don't think Smogon does their job of creating a fair competitive environment perfectly, but they do it better than anyone else who i've seen try. Certainly better than i can do. 718 pokemon is a lot to work with, and seeing all these creative tiers on pokemonshowdown where almost every pokemon in the game has a chance is very impressive and great to see! I don't like when people complain that their pokemon gets moved to another tier where it belongs. It's not like you can't use that pokemon anymore, just use it in a fair environment. Your mega kangaskan will still perform well in ubers, don't worry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raindrop Valkyrie Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 THing is I want to try getting into competive battling since I haven't really done it much. They were a site where I could easily find info and use it to begin to understand what I am doing, I still am a nub lol, but they have at least helped me get my foot in the door. Thing is I am not 100% comfortable with making my own sets etc...yet since I don't know much. I am sure I would be critcal as hell about stuff if I knew better, but I don't yet lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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