ExoFlashFire Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 Some people dislike that they're favorite Pokemon is in a low tier, and some of the analyses say that "You shouldn't use ____ unless its for a gimmick team" for his/her favorite poke. Other players, however, dislike smogon because of the banlists might include their favorite pokemon or one that, in the player's perspective, not "Uber." Take Blaziken for example. It can be countered by Talonflame, Slowbro, Salamence, and Latias, yet it's banned anyway because of it's sheer power, forcing the player to have at least one of those pokes. While some smogon players like me think its fair, others think it's stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soleil Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 (edited) They're well organized, very popular, and just generally really good at what they do. If you don't want to play by their rules, for whatever reason(s), then don't. Just don't be upset by the fact that a good majority do. Some might interpret some Smogonites attitude about Pokemon meta-gaming as arrogance, but you have to realize their opinions are quite well founded... Y'know, most people against Smogon are people who are upset by the fact that they ban certain things and create sets that are widely used which "takes the fun out of the game". Frankly, these people are idiots who don't understand what the concept of meta-gaming is. Things are banned when the meta-game begins to centralize around them. There's a difference between setting up your 6 Pokemon team so it can deal with the top 20 or so Pokemon in their respective tier than having to dedicate a Pokemon and/or your stragety to dealing with just one. And sets are created to correlate with the usage statistics. Some Pokemon has a lot of Special Defense EV investment on it's more defensive sets? There's a reason for that. If you actually played their meta-game, you'd probably find fairly quickly that it's needed to take hits from certain threats that would otherwise wreck it. Oh! But what if I find one of the sets to be obsolete compared to my own? Well, pat yourself on the back, that's meta-gaming: designing your stragety to deal withthe the environment. Smogons sets are simply platforms, albiet very good platforms, but platforms non the less. They're open to your own improvement and alteration. Never once have I met a Smogonite who believed Smogon's sets to be the truth to solving world hunger and complete and utter perfection. No, generally they share my opinion on the matter, that opinion being that you should run the standard sets unless you can come up with something that actually WORKS, and not just be different for the sake of being hipster. That's not meta-gaming, and you will fail. I promise you, that you WILL fail if you do that... in other words you're gonna have a bad time. And yes, Smogonites will look down on you for being a hipster. And that's all I have to say about that. If you don't enjoy it, just walk away and let those who do carry on with their own buisness. They're not hurting anyone or anything. Edited January 27, 2014 by Soleil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapphire Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 I sense a Smognite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2tousent Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 lol, who the heck follows smogon's sets... and wins? they are just suggestions, and you can use them if you don't know what to do and about the tiers, they do it so well, the bans happen because they are needed and higher tiers tend to be banlists from tier that are lower, so you can use your pikachu agains other pokemon of it's level, some pokemon are just stronger than the others, that's a fact. <.< now i don't know much about smogon's people, but i play a lot on showdown and i'm completely fine with the rules, minus some things i disagree, but we can't all agree with the same thing random thing: showdown > PO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godot Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 @ackalacka Like I said and many did before, we here don't hate the smogon tiers, we just don't agree and use our own rules because that is what we enjoy. And a lot of our original members are meh towards smogon because for personal reasons. It's not that we dislike them, we dislike people who force their opinions on ours and get mad when we disagree Also we are a PO based community who focus on being a social community rather than a competitive community. Sure the difference between PO and Shoddy exists, but a huge chunk of us just don't care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinny Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 Personally i don't have nothing against Smogon (Some of their sets are surprinsingly good). I just don't like when people take whatever they say as some kind of law. You can agree with Smogon tiers as much as you want, i'm not going to if i don't want to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapphire Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 I just don't like when people take whatever they say as some kind of law. You can agree with Smogon tiers as much as you want, i'm not going to if i don't want to. That about sums it up for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Radiant Aeon Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Okay lets list off my likes/dislikes Likes: They have a "solid" understanding of the metagame. Their sets are basic guide stones to people in the meta. Generally speaking, they have some "useful" tips.Their tiering is designed around how something is in the meta and how absurdly powerful or used it is in a certain tier (Thus why Blaziken, M-Gengar, ect. are banned, due to them having strengths many considered "broken" with only specific counters and have large presence in that specific meta) and organize their tiering to be the most "fair" in the game. They have a large presence in the competitive scene and help out in some ways in it, that I can appreciate. Dislikes: The people who avidly follow Smogon are usually dickheads and follow them in word and deed. They don't really like variance in a Pokemon's set and prefer to strictly go by what they say as the best set. Overtly cocky with their tiering system as if it is the perfect one, though they have huge problems in them. Struggle to accept different opinions of outside people with different tierings. A lot of bickering. More dickheads (though I've met some nice people before). Finally, a bit personal, but I generally hate people who are extremely arrogant. I mean, arrogance is a part of a character, but too much of it is so...bleah. Rating: 5/12 = 41.7% like In conclusion- While some stuff Smogon does is some what appreciating, they have so many annoying people who follow them, its annoying. Their sets guide me a lot in getting used to a Pokemon since, well, they work, but I'm always in for something that is generally surprising (should have seen my face when I saw Sand Rush Excadrill in Reborn the first time...fuck you Cow). That is why I like Reborn so much- a lot of freedom. Smogon maintains order in their tiering, but its so...boring, yet people gloss over it its crazy. Also, arrogance in its people...grrr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithy Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 (edited) So um... this Smogon site would it happen to be Smogon university? Honestly i didn't really see to many stuck up pricks there. (Maybe 'cause I was asking them about their opinion on teams.) *Edit* Yeah they're a bunch of stuck up pricks... :/ Edited February 3, 2014 by Smithy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapphire Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Anyone notice the Smogonite we had trolling reborn the other day? Bragging about how they were the best, even though they lost almost every single battle, then saying 'it didn't count because you used UBERZ', and when told that Reborn didn't use Smogon tiers, they just went on and on about how only Smogon tiers were 'true' tiers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Anyone notice the Smogonite we had trolling reborn the other day? Bragging about how they were the best, even though they lost almost every single battle, then saying 'it didn't count because you used UBERZ', and when told that Reborn didn't use Smogon tiers, they just went on and on about how only Smogon tiers were 'true' tiers. You do realize every community has vocal trolls who's soul goal is to fuck with you, right? The larger the community, the more people who will do so. That's just how things work and is in no way exclusive to Smogon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapphire Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 The thing is, with Smogon, the trolls make up the majority of the userbase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Amethyst Posted February 6, 2014 Administrators Share Posted February 6, 2014 Anyone notice the Smogonite we had trolling reborn the other day? Bragging about how they were the best, even though they lost almost every single battle, then saying 'it didn't count because you used UBERZ', and when told that Reborn didn't use Smogon tiers, they just went on and on about how only Smogon tiers were 'true' tiers. this, actually this would be why historically people don't like smogon here >> Used to be a much bigger problem when Smogon used PO, and I recognize that that isn't an act of that community itself, but it is quite annoying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ApatheticPanda Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 I actually use Smogon, so you could call me a Smogonite. I follow there rules and everything, but I only apply the rules and tiers to myself. So if someone uses some pokemon like Mega-Gengar or Mega-Kangakhans, I'm okay with it, kind of, but if I see someone use a team of full on legends, then I have a problem, but then I'm like OU vs Ubers, going hardcore. I'm not going to be a jerk and take smogon's rules as law. Its like be Christian and or an Atheist (I'm Christian), I'm not going to force my beliefs/lifestyle on you. If you're atheist or gay, I'm not going to discriminate you or hate you, I'll accept you, but enough of beliefs, I don't wanna start a full on debate about beliefs. I didn't know that Reborn had a tier and all that like Smogon, I'll check that out and maybe make a team based on those rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur_Castle Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 I am not really into competitive battling, but I have seen smogon for tips and whatnot that could be useful for me, so I'm with those who find Smogon kinda helpful but don't really care about its followers. On another note, the Pachirisu page is also hilarious as hell... http://www.smogon.com/bw/pokemon/pachirisu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 The thing is, with Smogon, the trolls make up the majority of the userbase. The negative is almost always louder than the voice of the positive, but that doesn't mean the quiet positives are nonexistent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Human minds are much receptive to negative events then positive ones; the negativity bias. It's much easier for us to remember negative events than positive ones, something that has helped us survive as a species. That's why on the news, you hear more bad news than good. That said, humans, in order to deal with a constant barrage of stimuli, are quick to judge the many by just the actions of the few. So while some Somoginites might be utter fucks, most are probably perfectly fine and friendly and shouldn't be immediately looked down upon meeting them. Basically, don't stereotype. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 (edited) The problem truly isn't smogon itself which is a fantastic resource for competitive battling info and humour (http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/luvdisc) but the fact that these smogonites justify every arrogant and close minded thing they say and do in the name of smogon. I wouldn't call it stereotyping on negative experiences as much as I would say it's an image they built comparative to other online cultures. Seriously how many rebornites have you heard about preaching our tiers as superior? The end product of Smogon is fantastic but the culture there is a breeding ground for trolls who take a children's game too seriously Edited February 13, 2014 by Bear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquachu Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 I won't criticize Smogon too harshly, as it's largely because I once randomly stumbled onto one of their pages that I got into competitive battling. Their sets are nice to use as a reference point, and while it can be filled with absolute d***s, who will harp on you to no end for trivial things because you don't agree with them, it also has members who genuinely just want to provide a balancing factor and make the game more fun. The moral of this story: Don't judge an entire community on it's trolls, unless the troll is ≥ the slice of the divide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamitako Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 I like Smogon. IDK about the community, but it sounds like practically every other internet community ever I also really like their tiers, but I also understand people that dislike them. Especially when they disallow a really cool Pokemon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapphire Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 I won't criticize Smogon too harshly, as it's largely because I once randomly stumbled onto one of their pages that I got into competitive battling. Their sets are nice to use as a reference point, and while it can be filled with absolute d***s, who will harp on you to no end for trivial things because you don't agree with them, it also has members who genuinely just want to provide a balancing factor and make the game more fun. The moral of this story: Don't judge an entire community on it's trolls, unless the troll is ≥ the slice of the divide. The troll IS ≥ of the divide though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquachu Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 The troll IS ≥ of the divide though. Not really. I've crunched some numbers. Schience states that the ratio of troll/helper is about 2/1, even if the helpers can be d***s about it though..... Oh wait, forgot to carry the five..... Well, now the ratio of troll to ass is 1.65654x10^12...../12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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