Theories & Thoughts

[Amare]

On 8/11/2024 at 1:54 PM, Luri said:

 

Don’t worry about it! Craziness is bound to happen sometimes. I hope everything has been a lot more chill for you in recent weeks! It kinda got crazy for me too…plus I ended up getting destroyed by summer allergies and all my huskies decided to coat blow at the same time. Oh boy. Things are a lot calmer and I’m right as rain now (and swimming in a much smaller sea of fur) so I’m back and ready to discuss!

 

Full on red string conspiracy boards filled with the wildest theories that’d make even Boyd Cooper proud!

They also contain the letter o…is there a deeper meaning here? Is it a coincidence that Shiv’s name is Shiv and he’s the one that ended up stabbed? There’s just so many mysteries about.

 

Interesting question… I actually do wonder if they have the same powerset. There is definitely an overlap between their powers. Though there are little things like Aurora using her power to increase the rate of growth for her pokémon, something I’m not sure if Shiv has done. Granted there’s nothing to say he hasn’t at some point either.

There is also the cryptic talk about colors and their dreams…not sure if the colors are expressions of their personalities, ideals/goals, or abilities (could be a combination of all those, who knows) but they have very different, contrasting colors. If abilities do play a part in this distinction, then maybe it is possible their powersets do differ in some ways.

If they do have the same powerset it does make sense that it would boil down to personality/availability, absolutely.

 

There’s always a chance the research is tucked away in one of the rooms upstairs. It doesn’t seem like anyone knows about the manor in Silver Rise and its association with their family, so it could be a good place to stash the research. On the other head, the manor is in disrepair and if it’s still there it’s probably not in the best of conditions so maybe not.

The Dreamscape seems like a safe enough place for sensitive research like that. Not many people would be able to access it and theoretically she could create a crafty hiding place for it like in a secret room in their manor or maybe turned it into a tree or something. Absolutely a valid possibility!

The only other place that I can think of that Aurora is associated with is the Undercity however that seems pretty unlikely to me.

 

When Nova confronts Darkrai after it is released Darkrai mentions something about attempting to “deal” with Nova when she broke free so it dropping her of its own volition doesn’t seem too likely.

That being said it could be possible that the showdown between the twins and Nova is that *what* factor. If I remember correctly Nova disappears after that encounter and later on, she’s quite opposed to Darkrai. It seems that encounter could have been the catalyst, and she regained control sometime after that encounter and before the events of Bountilia.

Maybe there is another possibility. I forgot about it but way back at the beginning Nova remarks about some strange feeling and when pondering the feeling she mentions it feels cloudy. Many of the villagers describe the effects of hypnosis in similar ways. And some do experience some lingering effects, like Leonard still battling the protagonist even after Drowzee was dealt with.

Assuming that they are under the influence of hypnosis (maybe a stronger form ‘cause its Darkrai or something?) then it’s possible it can be dispelled in a similar manner as the Keegan situation. In the confrontation Connor unravelling the truth of the situation seemed to cause the afflicted to snap out of it. That could be what breaks hypnosis or is at least one component in breaking it.

If that is the case the events of Cellia revolved heavily around their past. Add in the fact that Nova had realized beforehand the Onyx Stone may be useless and everything is just made up and she would be well on her way to grasping the situation and breaking the hypnosis she’s under.

On a side note, I’m pretty curious as to whether or not Darkrai could bring Nova under its control again. Like is it a situation of once you’re free you’re absolutely free? Or is there a possibility she could end up under Darkrai’s control yet again?

If Nova truly is lying, then honestly props to Darkrai for staging such a ruse. It’s certainly a risky move. It now has a pawn inside the protag’s group. If it goes in this direction, I wonder what Darkrai is planning going forward.

 

Excellent villain bio for Quackington. *cue the cackling quacks*

 

I don’t recall that we have…the mayo is an untouched mystery I believe. According to the item description it is useless. Got any interesting ideas about it?

I was hoping to break the credit market by selling mayo in Reeve’s club but alas destroying the credit economy is not in the cards…yet. Maybe when we meet Quackington officially he can use the mayo in some recipe or something that could be used as like a super revive or healing item. Or some other requirement for another quest.

All I know is that I ended up with a silly headcanon that the protagonist really enjoys homemade mayo after acquiring 37 jars of it (I was bound and determined to find a use for the mayo on a different save…so now I have 37 jars of mayo xD).

 

Man, ‘tis a shame Darkrai can’t even enjoy the popcorn. It is just a well-meaning pedant at heart. That would be highly entertaining to see!

 

I totally forgot he calls him old, he so would! Rosetta and Aaron tag-team Garret in response, sending out a plethora of memes about his horrendous boating skills.

Oof that one about Tristian hits right in the feels. Poor guy! Nothing but crickets for Tristan.

 

It didn’t even know what hit it, Darkrai has been lassoed successfully. It was well worth going back and finishing, thanks!

 

Seriously that is a scary thought. Both of them are driven and quite determined individuals. Combine that with Shiv’s powers and Waldnehall’s ruthlessness and Ayrith could be in a predicament. It would make for some fun bit of chaos though! It’s probably a good thing that right now their goals aren’t aligned.

 

What an investigation that would be! Even they cannot unravel the mystery that is Jarred. That is both impressive and mildly concerning.

 

You have huskies? Oh, wow, you must get *covered* in fur. Yeah, things have been really hectic here for a while.

 

I actually have been wondering about the irony of a guy named Shiv getting shanked twice. I bet it's probably the devs thinking it was funny.

 

Those are definitely some great points. If/when we get introduced to more dreamers, I eagerly await contrasting their power sets. Maybe it's personality-based...

 

That's true, the player definitely can't get into those rooms. Or maybe there's more underground rooms, but they're hidden? Yeah, the Undercity seems too risky...

 

It could be that there was an emotional component to it? When Nova got confronted by Aurora, she was genuinely afraid for her life and her past misdeeds were thrown in her face. It could have been enough of a shock to break her out of Darkrai's hold/hypnosis/dream/whatever. Or maybe it was prolonged exposure to the Grid? The shock of being forgiven by Aurora?

 

As for whether they can be *re*controlled, right now I just don't think we have enough data to tell. If they can, then maybe Darkrai let Nova go on the assumption that she'd immediately join the heroes, on the logic that eventually, it could just re-hypnotise her later and then it'd have a mole and intel on the heroes' plans.

 

Quackling, if you will. *finger guns*

 

Honestly, the only theory I have is that the mayo is either a joke item or will be used in the future.

 

I like to think that Darkrai can eat dreams, so it can taste food that way.

 

In contrast, Tristan's memes are all the rage in the Dreamscape. Meanwhile, Ava and Emily make memes about Connor being terrible, Aderyn doesn't know what a meme is and Reeve is too elegant to waste his time. (Garret makes memes about him.)

 

Oh, good. (Lassoing Darkrai has historically been a real pain for me. Damn teleporting bastard.)

 

They keep trying to catch him to study him, but he vanishes the moment they're not looking.

[Luri]

On 8/29/2024 at 1:41 AM, Amare said:

 

You have huskies? Oh, wow, you must get *covered* in fur. Yeah, things have been really hectic here for a while.

 

I actually have been wondering about the irony of a guy named Shiv getting shanked twice. I bet it's probably the devs thinking it was funny.

 

Those are definitely some great points. If/when we get introduced to more dreamers, I eagerly await contrasting their power sets. Maybe it's personality-based...

 

That's true, the player definitely can't get into those rooms. Or maybe there's more underground rooms, but they're hidden? Yeah, the Undercity seems too risky...

 

It could be that there was an emotional component to it? When Nova got confronted by Aurora, she was genuinely afraid for her life and her past misdeeds were thrown in her face. It could have been enough of a shock to break her out of Darkrai's hold/hypnosis/dream/whatever. Or maybe it was prolonged exposure to the Grid? The shock of being forgiven by Aurora?

 

As for whether they can be *re*controlled, right now I just don't think we have enough data to tell. If they can, then maybe Darkrai let Nova go on the assumption that she'd immediately join the heroes, on the logic that eventually, it could just re-hypnotise her later and then it'd have a mole and intel on the heroes' plans.

 

Quackling, if you will. *finger guns*

 

Honestly, the only theory I have is that the mayo is either a joke item or will be used in the future.

 

I like to think that Darkrai can eat dreams, so it can taste food that way.

 

In contrast, Tristan's memes are all the rage in the Dreamscape. Meanwhile, Ava and Emily make memes about Connor being terrible, Aderyn doesn't know what a meme is and Reeve is too elegant to waste his time. (Garret makes memes about him.)

 

Oh, good. (Lassoing Darkrai has historically been a real pain for me. Damn teleporting bastard.)

 

They keep trying to catch him to study him, but he vanishes the moment they're not looking.

 

Haha yeah, two Siberians and a mix…some days I become a walking furball myself (I constantly thank whoever invented lint rollers)! Dang, sorry it’s been crazy for you for quite some time.

 

Me too. A name like Shiv is just tempting fate…just saying. With that level of irony, I’d say it kinda is amusing.

 

Ya know, it never crossed my mind we could potentially see more dreamers outside the established lot…that’s certainly an exciting prospect to see what shenanigans they get up to! Especially if contrasting power sets is a thing. I dunno why but I'm just imagining some rando dreamer really enjoying pokémon fusions.

 

Considering some of those wacky places the colored tokens are hidden in and that the Dreamscape Manor has a bookcase door leading to a secret room, I wouldn’t put it past those two. A hidden underground area or something of the sort seems right up their alley.

Just had a semi-unrelated idea while writing this…what if those tokens lead to Aurora’s research? I’d assume Shiv must’ve had some inkling about the research. And whatever they lead to must be helpful to the protagonist and her research seems like it could be quite useful. It could be used to hinder them in some capacity, or it could be used to appeal to her past self (kinda like how her fifth diary page does) and help her fight off Darkrai’s control.

 

There definitely could be an emotional component to it. Both Tristian and Shiv were also going through some emotional turmoil and struggled against Darkrai. If it is a component, then it will be interesting to see what emotional struggles Aurora will be faced with if she ever receives a chance to cast aside Darkrai as well.

The grid is a curious idea. We still don’t know much about it…and whether or not it has an effect on those who are within it for a prolonged period of time (aside from aging in deeper layers). Maybe by being in a different plane of reality for some time it weakens Darkrai’s connection to them.

Being forgiven by Aurora is just one outcome. She can also be attacked by Aurora, and she will still break free from Darkrai’s control by the end of Act 3 so Aurora’s forgiveness might not be the thing that helps her. Though I wouldn’t be surprised if Aurora’s forgiveness could help out in some capacity later on.

 

If the control stems from hypnosis, then it might be possible given how Keegan was able to use Hypnosis again. If it isn’t then yeah, we certainly don’t have enough data to really determine if it’s a possibility quite yet.

That could be one reason why Darkrai doesn’t seem overtly concerned about the heroes as of yet. It knows it could just use Nova as a mole/insider at any point. Or it simply plans on yoinking Nova from the heroes’ side at a pivotal moment, adding more firepower to their side. Either would be pretty beneficial to it I would assume.

 

Brilliant, absolutely brilliant. That one had me quackling XD

 

My money is on a joke item too, though it’d be pretty sweet if it’s usable in the future!

 

That’s actually a pretty adorable thought, I like that idea. I wonder what its favorite food would be. For some reason I’m just imagining Darkrai trying some intense spicy food-dreams.

 

Occasionally Tristan collabs with Booker and dream-Jarred on his memes. If anyone teaches Aderyn about memes my bet is that she’d be the one who’d totally be into wholesome/relatable pokémon memes. Reeve absolutely is! Instead, he’d rather save his wit for when he sees Garret in person. I certainly can't wait to see where the other gym leaders will fit into this meme group.

 

As much as I’d like to say my sneak skills pulled me through, I think I just got lucky with where it teleported to in all honesty. I can see how it can be a painnnnn if the teleporting bastard decides to be stubborn! At least finally lassoing him must have been quite satisfying.

 

Finally, someone is giving Shiv a taste of his own medicine, good on him! After days of searching, they finally find Jarred. One minute he’s rambling on about his sore toes and the next he’s just gone, leaving in his wake a puddle of water.

[NLM]

I've recently played Desolation E6 and realized there were two gravestones near "Old Man's" (Jarred's) House in the Dreamscape, with the names Nova and Lilith on them. They are also side by side. Could it mean it's people who escaped the Dreamscape and Darkrai has no more use for? If so, it would imply Darkrai has no more use for Nova and/or has given up on Lilith (she shows a memory of Nova trying to force her into coming with her, but her Umbreon claps her back). Also, they are far from Aurora's Manor and put together, I think that likely means something, like them being equal in the eyes of whoever put their graves there (as it likely wasn't themselves).

 

Also, how come Jarred is in both planes (Dreamscape and Ayrith)? That must mean he's been targeted by Darkrai, right? Yet he's also in Ayrith living his best life (presumably). He doesn't seem to target anyone to get them to Darkrai either, not sure if anyone can come up with an explanation for this?

 

Also, I find it interesting that in the East Cellia sewers, Nova tells Shiv Darkrai is a part of them. This would imply Darkrai still can make Nova struggle in terms of controlling herself, but also that Darkrai might also be within her mind.

 

Another thing I wonder about is Cresselia. In the PMD games where Darkrai is involved, Cresselia is acting behind the scenes, and helps putting an end to Darkrai's plans. However, there's no mention to it or hint regarding this in the game, so I wonder if Cresselia will be involved at all despite its powers to stop nightmares (misc.: just realized perfection Umbreon is Dark/Psychic, just like the lunar duo Darkrai/Cresselia).

 

[NLM]

So...more questions.

 

I've realized that in the Dreamscape, the inscription in the southern cavern says it's the beginning of the Dreamscape. It could be put there by Darkrai itself, but telling the reader "We are lucid" and "Help us" or "Heal us" seems a bit strange if so. Could it be connected to the mirror Waldenhall destroys, i.e., an equivalent in the Dreamscape of sorts? After all, at the end of E6, Reeve does say that perfection will spread like a plague, and that's how Aurora explains the Dreamscape (which also seems to line up with what the inscription says).

 

The other confusing thing is the lake trio being there. I believe the game tells us that the lake trio was there before the Dreamscape came to be, which would imply this is just another plane, one Darkrai was confined to when it didn't reach perfection, rather than a plane created by Darkrai itself.

 

Which also brings us to the point made by Shiv in the East Cellia sewers, when he says that Darkrai was (trapped) in the Dreamscape during its infancy. So...maybe the events at the very beginning (intro) of the game, whatever happened there, made Darkrai be reborn or something? Maybe, like Kuiki, it got stuck in a plane where time was accelerated, but backwards. It seems odd but there has to be an explanation for Darkrai to have reached perfection, even if only for a moment, and then be in its infancy in the Dreamscape.

 

Also, I wonder why the player is the one that can release Darkrai and not another character like Nova and the twins. Paired with what Reeve says about the player not showing the expected decay from having interacted with a perfection fragment, it really makes it seem like the player is superior to these three.

 

Another thing that intrigues me is the fact the voice (Darkrai's trainer) keeps comparing Waldenhall and the player, as if they were equal. If these interactions had only happened after Fairbale I would say its due to the interaction with the perfection fragment, but the trainer keeps interacting with the player way before that, which means the two are connected somehow. At one point, the player can hear that they are "two bodies in the same grave". But, whose grave? Is it Darkrai's trainer's grave? If so, it would make sense that the trainer mentions the player is an empty shell.

 

I'd also like to point out that Darkrai's trainer apparent "true form" in the mirror seems rather...rotten? Like, Reeve says that the trainer ascended to perfection without its trainer, but the trainer itself seems to just be like a shadow. In the intro, we seem to read a scream of pain of sorts, so what if not only is that trainer trapped, but also rotting? Perhaps that's why the Dreamscape started spreading and why Darkrai was confined to that specific plane?

 

Also, what's with Weeping Hill? Like Vejyr, it has a Sanctum, but with the grave of Keegan no less (what's the meaning of this?), and iirc it's only accessible after Shiv creates an entrance to that room. It'd be weird for Shiv to create an illusion that makes Keegan stand out considering how much he seemed to hate him. But what also buggers me is the fact that you get the Onyx Stone from Shiv's memory, which would mean you get it...out of his head??? Which in itself implies Shiv can just invite people into his mind, and then take stuff out of it into the real world. But back to the Onyx Stone, if it's obtained from a memory (rather than the real one, with an unknown location), then how come it has the same power as the real, past one?

 

[Luri]

On 10/4/2024 at 1:13 PM, NLM said:

I've recently played Desolation E6 and realized there were two gravestones near "Old Man's" (Jarred's) House in the Dreamscape, with the names Nova and Lilith on them. They are also side by side. Could it mean it's people who escaped the Dreamscape and Darkrai has no more use for? If so, it would imply Darkrai has no more use for Nova and/or has given up on Lilith (she shows a memory of Nova trying to force her into coming with her, but her Umbreon claps her back). Also, they are far from Aurora's Manor and put together, I think that likely means something, like them being equal in the eyes of whoever put their graves there (as it likely wasn't themselves).

 

Also, how come Jarred is in both planes (Dreamscape and Ayrith)? That must mean he's been targeted by Darkrai, right? Yet he's also in Ayrith living his best life (presumably). He doesn't seem to target anyone to get them to Darkrai either, not sure if anyone can come up with an explanation for this?

 

Also, I find it interesting that in the East Cellia sewers, Nova tells Shiv Darkrai is a part of them. This would imply Darkrai still can make Nova struggle in terms of controlling herself, but also that Darkrai might also be within her mind.

 

Another thing I wonder about is Cresselia. In the PMD games where Darkrai is involved, Cresselia is acting behind the scenes, and helps putting an end to Darkrai's plans. However, there's no mention to it or hint regarding this in the game, so I wonder if Cresselia will be involved at all despite its powers to stop nightmares (misc.: just realized perfection Umbreon is Dark/Psychic, just like the lunar duo Darkrai/Cresselia).

 

 

Yeah, it could be that the tombstones represent those who escaped the dream or something like sharing a potential of defying Darkrai.

Though if we are going with the no more usage angle, I would assume Tristan would have a grave as well. He had limited usage as a pawn before Darkrai was released and isn’t exactly useful to Darkrai now that it’s in Ayrith.

I hadn’t even considered their placement as a factor, that’s quite an interesting observation! I do think you’re onto something about those two being equals to each other.

Another possibility is that Nova proposes a potential link between her and Lilith cause she’s seeing a memory or vision of Lilith’s Umbreon. Maybe the graves are alluding to this link, whatever it may be?

A bit of a nutty idea but maybe the tombstones were placed by previous members of Team Cresent/Black Fox. Nova and Lilith were once heads of those organizations and there are a few Cresent/Black Foxes skulking about the Dreamscape. Those tombs are their way of putting their old “dream” lives to rest?

 

I have several ideas of varying degrees of possibility.

Anyone who can come and go from the dream is a target. It may be possible for someone to accidentally end up in the Dreamscape without being targeted. Maybe Jarred entered this way and since found out how to come and go as he pleases.

Alternately he knows a heck of a lot more than we realize. His trainer title is Peculiar Being, he can teleport all fancy like the others, and even summons a whole Lugia out of thin air. For someone who’s capable of doing any of that I assume entering/exiting the dream is a piece of cake for him, all the while avoiding Darkrai and the like.

Regarding whether he was targeted…I suppose it isn’t out of the realm of possibility. He clearly in the Dreamscape and displays powers that would certainly paint a target on his back. But you make a great point. Darkrai’s first priority was freeing itself. It was all hands-on deck when attempting to lead the main protagonist to Darkrai. It would seem really weird to me if everyone else was focused on that task while Jarred was tasked to wander around Ayrith and hunt down Lugia. Unless Darkrai lost control of Jarred in this situation, kinda like how the twins and Nova lost control several times it just doesn’t fit Darkrai’s m.o.

Let’s say they did target Jarred and for whatever reason Jarred was both unable to free Darkrai and to be controlled. The other option is that they leave him to languish away in the Dreamscape like the rest of the folks in Odis. Rosetta does mention she did hear from some residents of Cellia who shared a dream of a dark town governed by a pair of twins. This implies some folks were able to wake up. Jarred could have also woken up in this fashion and figured out how to travel between the two planes.

The only thing I cannot account for is Jarred’s rather chill demeanor in the Dreamscape. It is very unlike the Jarred we got to know in Ayrith.

 

Maybe Darkrai being a part of them is why they are all color-coordinating with Darkrai lol. In all seriousness that’s actually something we were just discussing here!

My first interpretation of that phrase was that Nova is empathizing with his struggles after going through it herself and attempting to appeal to Shiv that way.

 After going through that section again I do see what you mean, there is definitely a possibility that could be more of a constant struggle and that Darkrai may still be with Nova. I will be surprised if Darkrai can manage to control her for more than a moment or so.

It was clearly struggling to keep Nova under control and had to resort to snubbing her out. Clearly it didn’t go well for Darkrai, so if it does manage to control her again it doesn’t sound like she’s gonna make it easy for Darkrai. 

Within her mind or at the very least can still visit her in her dreams.

It will be interesting going forward!

 

Yep yep, Cresselia and Darkrai are also considered the lunar duo. Suffice it to say, usually if there’s one there’s the other. Which makes the absence of Cresselia in the narrative quite intriguing.

One of my ideas was that Cresselia might have something to do with Team Cresent at some point. Cresselia represents a crescent moon…very fitting for a team called Team Crescent. Though they are more focused on stopping Waldenhall, so maybe not. Aside from that, I can’t think of any hints to her presence.

Though it has only been one full episode since Darkrai has been outed as a main antagonist to the group of protagonists…I do think there is still time to introduce Cresselia into the narrative. Personally, kinda rooting for a Perfection Cresselia…it just sounds so cool.

However, with the lack of Cresselia hints right now I think it’s more likely Darkrai will be stopped through more unconventional means.

Good catch on the Dark/Psychic typing!

Maybe Umbreon might play a part in Darkrai’s downfall. In any case, that is quite a neat coincidence!

 

On 10/5/2024 at 3:19 AM, NLM said:

So...more questions.

 

I've realized that in the Dreamscape, the inscription in the southern cavern says it's the beginning of the Dreamscape. It could be put there by Darkrai itself, but telling the reader "We are lucid" and "Help us" or "Heal us" seems a bit strange if so. Could it be connected to the mirror Waldenhall destroys, i.e., an equivalent in the Dreamscape of sorts? After all, at the end of E6, Reeve does say that perfection will spread like a plague, and that's how Aurora explains the Dreamscape (which also seems to line up with what the inscription says).

 

The other confusing thing is the lake trio being there. I believe the game tells us that the lake trio was there before the Dreamscape came to be, which would imply this is just another plane, one Darkrai was confined to when it didn't reach perfection, rather than a plane created by Darkrai itself.

 

Which also brings us to the point made by Shiv in the East Cellia sewers, when he says that Darkrai was (trapped) in the Dreamscape during its infancy. So...maybe the events at the very beginning (intro) of the game, whatever happened there, made Darkrai be reborn or something? Maybe, like Kuiki, it got stuck in a plane where time was accelerated, but backwards. It seems odd but there has to be an explanation for Darkrai to have reached perfection, even if only for a moment, and then be in its infancy in the Dreamscape.

 

Also, I wonder why the player is the one that can release Darkrai and not another character like Nova and the twins. Paired with what Reeve says about the player not showing the expected decay from having interacted with a perfection fragment, it really makes it seem like the player is superior to these three.

 

Another thing that intrigues me is the fact the voice (Darkrai's trainer) keeps comparing Waldenhall and the player, as if they were equal. If these interactions had only happened after Fairbale I would say its due to the interaction with the perfection fragment, but the trainer keeps interacting with the player way before that, which means the two are connected somehow. At one point, the player can hear that they are "two bodies in the same grave". But, whose grave? Is it Darkrai's trainer's grave? If so, it would make sense that the trainer mentions the player is an empty shell.

 

I'd also like to point out that Darkrai's trainer apparent "true form" in the mirror seems rather...rotten? Like, Reeve says that the trainer ascended to perfection without its trainer, but the trainer itself seems to just be like a shadow. In the intro, we seem to read a scream of pain of sorts, so what if not only is that trainer trapped, but also rotting? Perhaps that's why the Dreamscape started spreading and why Darkrai was confined to that specific plane?

 

Also, what's with Weeping Hill? Like Vejyr, it has a Sanctum, but with the grave of Keegan no less (what's the meaning of this?), and iirc it's only accessible after Shiv creates an entrance to that room. It'd be weird for Shiv to create an illusion that makes Keegan stand out considering how much he seemed to hate him. But what also buggers me is the fact that you get the Onyx Stone from Shiv's memory, which would mean you get it...out of his head??? Which in itself implies Shiv can just invite people into his mind, and then take stuff out of it into the real world. But back to the Onyx Stone, if it's obtained from a memory (rather than the real one, with an unknown location), then how come it has the same power as the real, past one?

 

 

Yeah, it’d be quite a bit weird for Darkrai to design something like that, it makes more sense if it was someone who was trapped there that wrote the inscription and Darkrai is deterring people from reading it. The mirror being an equivalent is quite an interesting idea, we don’t know too much about it aside from the fact that Darkrai’s trainer was seemingly trapped in it or something. If that is the case, then it could be assumed that the Dreamscape was formed in the Settler’s Ruins. That would also account for the similarities of Perfection and the Dreamscape.

I had a thought that the cave that houses the inscription might have a connection to some cave found somewhere in Arcanius. During a flashback between Booker and Aurora she says there’s all sorts of stories about that particular cave, one of them being that the cave is where the first souls of the dream were captured. My guess is that this cave could be where the dream was formed and where, as Aurora says, the first souls of the dream were captured. Cause it’s the origin point of the dream there’s either a strong connection to this cave or the one in the Dreamscape is a sort of copy of it.  

 

That is the question! At first glance it definitely does seem to imply that. If that’s the case it just brings more questions honestly. Like why Darkrai ended up there once it lost its Perfection? Is it some sort of plane in between the Perfection realm and reality? Why can it manipulate this realm that it does not belong to?

There is a theory posed by the same character who made that observation. This mysterious character poses that it isn’t just the lake guardians but also the lakes themselves aren’t from the Dreamscape. Those lakes radiate some kind of energy that is present throughout the Dreamscape and that the lakes are “the heart of this strange wilderness, fueling that which occurs” there.

Maybe those lakes ended up swallowed by the dream or it’s possible for spots in reality to be linked to the Dreamscape? Maybe like a focal point or something.

 

What Shiv says does seem to check out. In its infancy can mean something that’s very new or still developing, like a budding nation or new tech for instance.

It’s implied that Darkrai and its trainer are a part of the first trainers on Ayrith. While we don’t know exactly how long they were there for, Darkrai is arguably still quite new to Ayrith before it gets trapped in the Dreamscape. Either that or it is in reference to its Perfection state that Darkrai just acquired and proceeded to lose.

I do think Darkrai is pretty old now, spending about a century in the Dreamscape (give or take the potential difference in the flow of time between the two planes).

 

I have wondered about that too. By all accounts Aurora and Shiv seem the most likely to meet the criteria but as we see that wasn’t the case. Given that I do agree, it is quite likely that the protagonist was able to because of their special circumstances and whatever relationship they have with Perfection.

Whatever the case I think it’s kinda amusing that the one who is able to release Darkrai also seems to have some connection to Darkrai’s trainer, or at the very least, they have some inkling of who the protagonist is. Talk about a coincidence!

 

What’s really interesting about the trainer is that the first time they “speak” to the protagonist is when they set foot on Keneph Beach. In the very beginning of the game. At the time, however, the trainer did not recognize the protagonist for who they were. There is most definitely some form of connection. Which is even more strange when considering the entity in question is assumed to be one of the first trainers on Ayrith. The questions keep piling up!

Yep, I believe there are two instances of shared graves. After experiencing what Waldenhall saw in the Settler’s Ruins they say “Now, you must understand...You, and he who came before... share the same grave. You, more so than anyone, represent that which is unworthy...”. This instance of a shared grave is obviously referring to the fact that both Waldenhall and the protagonist now have Perfection energy stuck to them and their fate is the same…a fate that will lead to their demise.

However, after beating Waldenhall the trainer says “No matter your choice...the reality is the same. We are but two corpses, sharing the same grave. You, however...were never my intention”. At this time the protagonist hasn’t entered the Ruins and hadn’t afflicted with the Perfection energy (just gonna ignore the Perfection serum for this since that is skippable lol). It could be that in this case it is the trainer’s grave. The thing that trips me up is the ‘you’ bit.

Not only just an empty shell, an empty shell in the absence of whomever is speaking, further implying some sort of connection to this person.

 

Totally, ya could be onto something here. Reeve does mention that they had at least partially achieved Perfection. But it absolutely does seem like they lost their mortal form and were left as a soul or shadow or something incorporeal at least. From what it sounds like the outcome of Perfection leads to some unknown, highly sought-after plane of existence, so maybe their body is over there but the process was interrupted (whatever went down during the beginning text of the game), and their soul was left trapped. It definitely could be the reason why Darkrai ended up stuck.

Or maybe the process requires the physical body to be discarded to reach this plane and that’s why they look like some unwell apparition right now.

 

Not to mention gravestones for Nova, Shiv, Aurora, and Tristan! Weeping Hill is a burial site which, at the very least, is haunted.

I assume Keegan’s grave is supposed to represent the fact that the boy who was once Keegan is no more. He is now Kuiki. His old identity is put to rest as Kuiki starts new life. Why it’s there…well truly I have no clue. Maybe Keegan placed it there himself, which is fitting if he was laying his old identity to rest. Shiv could have found the grave later on when attempting to hide the Onyx Stone in the Weeping Hills and that’s how he knew about it.

The entrance to the cave where Keegan’s grave is shown to be open and accessible before diving into Shiv’s memories. The player just isn’t given an option to check out the room cause Shiv just railroads ya into finding the Onyx Stone before getting the chance to check the room.

Regarding the illusions and memories, Shiv does state beforehand that the Weeping Hill is like a repository of memories, being able to read and store a person’s memories. It can also physically present these memories to travelers in the form of illusions, or what Shiv says as ghostly wisps. Those illusions of Keegan and Shiv are drawn from Shiv’s memories, probably sprinkled with his personal conjecture of how Keegan felt, which could explain some of the emphasis on Keegan and his feelings. If ya buy into Keegan placing his own grave, then maybe it’s a mix of both Keegan’s and Shiv’s memories.

Him hiding the Onyx Stone in one of his memories could be as simple as him finding where the memories are stored/finding his particular memories and plopping the stone inside until he decides to go and retrieve it. Shiv has funky powers so that doesn’t sound too farfetched for him to do, kinda like some Pokemon PC box or something, but instead of a computer it’s a memory and instead of storing pokémon he’s storing a stone.

Regarding the Onyx Stone obtained from the memory, the stone the player fetches is the real stone. There doesn’t seem to be any indication that it isn’t, as far as I can tell. Darkrai even refers to the Onyx Stone when chastising the twins if you reject its offer. If they were chasing around a fake stone or a memory duplicate in addition to their slew of mistakes it doesn't seem very likely Darkrai would let that particular failure go unannounced.

[Vit]

The perfection state is interesting. Like in real life, we can be perfect in a small area if we sacrifice everything else. Sacrificing these other areas comes at a cost:

In Desolation they state that, trainers can only have one Pokémon if they want it to reach a perfection state, but they end up being miserable because they had to sacrifice these other areas or Pokémon.

I suspect Tristan was trying to reach the perfection stage with Darkrai, but he had to let his other Pokémon go.
However, Tristan seems to be a dreamed-up or ghost version of the real trainer of Darkrai. The real trainer like others have pointed it, is likely the one caught in the mirror.

Tristan being bad i believe we understand by how you had to collect seven instead of six books, enlightening yourself so you could withstand the Darkrai encounter, IF you had told Tristan the truth as part of the quests with him.
Informing Tristan made your own life more difficult...

 

When people feel the need to become perfect in one area and give up other things, it’s either because they had nothing left to give up and were already set on that course or because they were forced, and thus willing to pay the associated costs.

Maybe Darkrai's trainer was somehow forced to become perfect for a purpose, and it cost more than they anticipated.

The main character, according to Jarred & Darkrai dialogues in the story, is a shell—nothing before—and is somehow connected to Darkrai, as they can hear its thoughts and travel with little cost.

Maybe the goodness that Darkrai had to sacrifice to become perfect is what we, the protagonist, represent. We are the externalized goodness, manifesting as the protagonist.

 

The Desolation story could be about Darkrai and its trainer's complete evil, the price they had to pay for the perfection required for something. The question is, how much bad could they have done that could be justified for something greater?

Then, the protagonist's arc is to bridge this externalized shell of goodness that they are—in a Jungian fashion—bridging the shadow self, or dark side, to become a balanced being that can act rightly.

In other words, the protagonist finds out how truly bad they themselves are, personified by Darkrai and its trainer(who might be the protagonist/us), but ends up connecting back together, inspired by how Carl Jung suggested one should integrate one’s own shadow.

This story could be even more fucking amazing and relatable for people if this is done right! Can we do something so bad, for a reason, that we alienate ourselves, but eventually heal back up through reconnecting our different internal/external sides? I already love the story.

 

 

I suspect the Dreamland and nightmares play a significant role. What we aim for in life—our dreams—gives us direction. But fears, and fleeing from nightmares, give us much more speed in getting there.

It’s similar to an experiment done on rats to see how hard they would pull on a harness. They pulled to get food, but when they smelled a threat like a cat, their pull force on the harness doubled as they tried to flee the threat/nightmare.

Fears drive a useful function for achievement, but if fears become too overwhelming, and especially if we do not have a positive goal to run towards, the fears turn harmful.

In Pokémon Desolation, the balance is off. People live too much in the nightmare, and their anxiety dominates them. Maybe they lost their goals? Like the couple that was not together in dreamscape/nightmare, but were in their 'real life'.

How do you restore yourself from nightmares and anxiety, how do you find goals and direction? Maybe here the story could also give some real powerful tools and thoughts from real life as part of its story. It would be amazing too!

I love how the gangs are essentially the main characters trying to accumulate resources to do what they believe is best for the world. However the entire world is pulled in, and the sheer size of the organizations results in problems and frictions for everyone.

Like a world war, because small imbalances in the dream, and with people, started forcing people to join greater groups to survive. What is the cure for these groups? Systems of government that ensure they can be well off? Something else?

 

On a side-note:

I am having difficulty remembering all the different characters and their stories.

It would be great if there were a room in the manor, like a detective room with pictures(or an identifier of sorts) and explanations of the different characters.

It could even involve a quest to map the relationships between the characters—a real detective clue game that would help players understand the difficult storyline, especially those who don’t play the game all in one go.

If I wait a week between playing, it becomes even more difficult to remember what happened...

[Luri]

On 10/28/2024 at 7:00 AM, Vit said:

The perfection state is interesting. Like in real life, we can be perfect in a small area if we sacrifice everything else. Sacrificing these other areas comes at a cost:

In Desolation they state that, trainers can only have one Pokémon if they want it to reach a perfection state, but they end up being miserable because they had to sacrifice these other areas or Pokémon.

I suspect Tristan was trying to reach the perfection stage with Darkrai, but he had to let his other Pokémon go.
However, Tristan seems to be a dreamed-up or ghost version of the real trainer of Darkrai. The real trainer like others have pointed it, is likely the one caught in the mirror.

Tristan being bad i believe we understand by how you had to collect seven instead of six books, enlightening yourself so you could withstand the Darkrai encounter, IF you had told Tristan the truth as part of the quests with him.
Informing Tristan made your own life more difficult...

 

When people feel the need to become perfect in one area and give up other things, it’s either because they had nothing left to give up and were already set on that course or because they were forced, and thus willing to pay the associated costs.

Maybe Darkrai's trainer was somehow forced to become perfect for a purpose, and it cost more than they anticipated.

The main character, according to Jarred & Darkrai dialogues in the story, is a shell—nothing before—and is somehow connected to Darkrai, as they can hear its thoughts and travel with little cost.

Maybe the goodness that Darkrai had to sacrifice to become perfect is what we, the protagonist, represent. We are the externalized goodness, manifesting as the protagonist.

 

The Desolation story could be about Darkrai and its trainer's complete evil, the price they had to pay for the perfection required for something. The question is, how much bad could they have done that could be justified for something greater?

Then, the protagonist's arc is to bridge this externalized shell of goodness that they are—in a Jungian fashion—bridging the shadow self, or dark side, to become a balanced being that can act rightly.

In other words, the protagonist finds out how truly bad they themselves are, personified by Darkrai and its trainer(who might be the protagonist/us), but ends up connecting back together, inspired by how Carl Jung suggested one should integrate one’s own shadow.

This story could be even more fucking amazing and relatable for people if this is done right! Can we do something so bad, for a reason, that we alienate ourselves, but eventually heal back up through reconnecting our different internal/external sides? I already love the story.

 

 

I suspect the Dreamland and nightmares play a significant role. What we aim for in life—our dreams—gives us direction. But fears, and fleeing from nightmares, give us much more speed in getting there.

It’s similar to an experiment done on rats to see how hard they would pull on a harness. They pulled to get food, but when they smelled a threat like a cat, their pull force on the harness doubled as they tried to flee the threat/nightmare.

Fears drive a useful function for achievement, but if fears become too overwhelming, and especially if we do not have a positive goal to run towards, the fears turn harmful.

In Pokémon Desolation, the balance is off. People live too much in the nightmare, and their anxiety dominates them. Maybe they lost their goals? Like the couple that was not together in dreamscape/nightmare, but were in their 'real life'.

How do you restore yourself from nightmares and anxiety, how do you find goals and direction? Maybe here the story could also give some real powerful tools and thoughts from real life as part of its story. It would be amazing too!

I love how the gangs are essentially the main characters trying to accumulate resources to do what they believe is best for the world. However the entire world is pulled in, and the sheer size of the organizations results in problems and frictions for everyone.

Like a world war, because small imbalances in the dream, and with people, started forcing people to join greater groups to survive. What is the cure for these groups? Systems of government that ensure they can be well off? Something else?

 

On a side-note:

I am having difficulty remembering all the different characters and their stories.

It would be great if there were a room in the manor, like a detective room with pictures(or an identifier of sorts) and explanations of the different characters.

It could even involve a quest to map the relationships between the characters—a real detective clue game that would help players understand the difficult storyline, especially those who don’t play the game all in one go.

If I wait a week between playing, it becomes even more difficult to remember what happened...

 

That is quite an interesting idea about Tristan. I could see that working. For Darkrai to have such control over Tristan and to snuff him out so easily there’s a chance Darkrai dreamed-up Tristan. His likeness could be based on its trainer. And they were using the normal gym leader’s death to confuse the protagonist…Tristan might not be Tristan the normal type gym leader. There’s something kinda sinister about that.

 

I really like that interpretation of Perfection and the relationship between Darkrai, its trainer and the protagonist! That the story is about the trials and tribulations of bridging the gap between the shadow and the self, acceptance of the whole, and healing and growing as a person! What do you think about Waldenhall given this interpretation? He’s following a similar path to Darkrai and its trainer, sharing similar narcissistic tendencies and committing atrocities for the sake of Perfection. It makes me wonder if Waldenhall will be able to defy his fate and have a chance to reconnect his internal and external sides? Or will he be an example of what happens when someone embraces their shadow but never reaches a balance between the two?

 

Very fitting that Darkrai and nightmares go hand in hand. Those are all good points about dreams and direction…without them it can feel like aimless wandering that can lead to anxiety and nightmares. I think there’s also the pressure of not being able to reach goals or dreams, which can result in fear and anxiety. While many lack direction and goals in the Dreamscape there are also those who struggle to achieve them. Before Anna found out that they’d been bamboozled the Odis Council were scrambling to deal with the lack of resources and infrastructure for the town. Same goes for the South Settlement. There are quite a few interesting concepts that the Dreamscape seems to cover.

 

As Aurora once said to a couple of Foxes “It will soon be time for you to pick a side”. Absolutely, many have a vision as to how the world should be and they inevitably drag others into it. Even in the Dreamscape normal folks aren’t safe from it, with Mattias, a previous Black Fox, vandalizing the shrines and thinking that the strong should guide the weak, that they should be the ones in charge. It will certainly be exciting to see how a resolution will be reached between all these factions!

 

Side note response-

Actually, that’d be quite a neat idea! I feel it…I don’t know how many times I’ve forgotten Cedric’s name when writing a couple of posts on here (I remember his piercings more than his name…sorry Cedric I’m terrible at remembering names DX)

I remember during my playthrough of e6 my friend and I talking about Serentiy’s camera, and I thought it’d be kinda cute to snap photos of locations and friends and they could be displayed in the manor with. Could do something like that and add little bios for important characters/locations and a summary of events (it gives me a chuckle to think about the protagonist pulling out a camera upon first meeting Darkrai and snapping a photo for the scrapbook back home lol).

Aside from that the Wiki does provide some helpful information that makes it a tad easier to remember things. It’s slowly being worked on so at some point it’ll be more accurate and up to date.

[Vit]

On 11/4/2024 at 3:24 AM, Luri said:

 

That is quite an interesting idea about Tristan. I could see that working. For Darkrai to have such control over Tristan and to snuff him out so easily there’s a chance Darkrai dreamed-up Tristan. His likeness could be based on its trainer. And they were using the normal gym leader’s death to confuse the protagonist…Tristan might not be Tristan the normal type gym leader. There’s something kinda sinister about that.

 

I really like that interpretation of Perfection and the relationship between Darkrai, its trainer and the protagonist! That the story is about the trials and tribulations of bridging the gap between the shadow and the self, acceptance of the whole, and healing and growing as a person! What do you think about Waldenhall given this interpretation? He’s following a similar path to Darkrai and its trainer, sharing similar narcissistic tendencies and committing atrocities for the sake of Perfection. It makes me wonder if Waldenhall will be able to defy his fate and have a chance to reconnect his internal and external sides? Or will he be an example of what happens when someone embraces their shadow but never reaches a balance between the two?

Somehow to me Waldenhall feels like a temporary figure without much depth.
He is extremely capable, and extremely ambitious. Those who can do anything because of their abilities don't settle for a normal person's life. He seems to want to push his boundaries as far as he can for the experience. Life isn't much but experiences is it?
Why did X famous person do Y crazy thing? Because they could, and wanted to see what would happen if they did, and feel some feelings related to it. It's human curiousity somehow, and not too novel for me, so a little boring.
To me the story around Darkrai is more interesting, and unless Waldenhall has a true connection or purpose in the context of Darkrai, he mostly seems like a temporary placeholder.

Maybe i just don't have the imagination to see what role he could have in the grand scheme of things. The ambitious scientist story is however a bit old. I wonder if some novel and interesting story around this ambitious scientist could take place.
Why do you find him interesting? What is your best bet on how Waldenhall's story might unfold?

[Luri]

On 11/7/2024 at 5:24 PM, Vit said:

Somehow to me Waldenhall feels like a temporary figure without much depth.
He is extremely capable, and extremely ambitious. Those who can do anything because of their abilities don't settle for a normal person's life. He seems to want to push his boundaries as far as he can for the experience. Life isn't much but experiences is it?
Why did X famous person do Y crazy thing? Because they could, and wanted to see what would happen if they did, and feel some feelings related to it. It's human curiousity somehow, and not too novel for me, so a little boring.
To me the story around Darkrai is more interesting, and unless Waldenhall has a true connection or purpose in the context of Darkrai, he mostly seems like a temporary placeholder.

Maybe i just don't have the imagination to see what role he could have in the grand scheme of things. The ambitious scientist story is however a bit old. I wonder if some novel and interesting story around this ambitious scientist could take place.
Why do you find him interesting? What is your best bet on how Waldenhall's story might unfold?

 

Sorry things have been a bit chaotic and whatnot!

Yeah, I can totally understand that. I am most invested in the Darkrai side of things as well. It’s past with its trainer, whether or not Darkrai and its trainer are going to get along with one another, what exactly is going on with the twins, the whole kit and caboodle. Lots center around them. And the intrigue of how the protagonist actually fits into the picture is just too enticing!

 

I do think a part of it, at least for me, is that Waldenhall hasn’t had enough screentime. We’ve heard characters mention him, we’ve read some journals left by him. We know what he has done but he hasn’t made an appearance until episode 6. He’s now an active participant wrapped up in the upcoming chaos so we will see if he deviates from the pre-defined scientist template or expands upon it. Kinda like Artem. There is something there that kinda sparks an interest in me about Artem. He has been researching the Grid and uses it to obtain info but outside of that he’s had so little exposure so far that it’s certainly anyone’s guess as to which direction he will go in. They could absolutely end up being temporary figures in the end. I’m certainly not ruling that out as a possibility though I like to think they have potential to be something more. Though totally gonna admit I do have fondness for archetypal scientists so that does fuel my personal intrigue a bit :)

 

I don’t really have a set idea about how his story might go but more of a collection of thoughts and whatnot about Waldenhall.

If he does end up being a more traditional curiosity driven character that can still hold some potential. If it’s something like that then his convictions and reactions to the upcoming situations will determine if he will be an interesting character with depth.

Though I suppose I read his character a bit differently. I don’t think it is just curiosity or testing boundaries at play. He uses words and phrases like he is destined and this is his fate, his world. Perfection is an opportunity and something that has always belonged to him. He thinks of Perfection as a crown of silver and that he is destined to inherit the mantle. Crowns and mantles…objects that have associations with power, authority, and leadership. All the while others are unworthy of it and are his adversaries. And as Garret said there seems to be a sort of desperation driving Waldenhall.

 

His motives may have started off as rampant curiosity but have slowly become tainted by unchecked ambition and egocentric entitlement. He somewhat gives me Elliot vibes. Reeve and Waldenhall sunk so much time and effort into researching Perfection. It’s his life’s work. He is destined to have his crown of brilliant blinding silver for all his efforts. He’s also giving me major Darkrai’s trainer vibes. Both seem to have these narcissistic tendencies, they both have used the sheep and shepherd analogy, both had the grand idea of bypassing the bond requirement, both think that Perfection is something that belongs to them, and they both have disdain against others (Darkrai’s Trainer has something against those “destroying the sanctity” of Arcanius and Waldenhall doesn’t seem too keen on Darkrai’s trainer, the priests at Kanzen Temple, or really the protagonist).

 

And I think it’s this that connects him to Darkrai’s trainer. Not like any sort of actual connections but instead they are rather similar in some regards (at least to me. Though who knows…maybe there is a deeper connection between the two?). Waldenhall feels like a reflection of Darkrai’s trainer right now (fitting they meet in front of a mirror). Maybe his story will start shifting towards being tied to someone or something that is an equal to his own evil. Being antagonized by someone who has the worst qualities of himself. It could lead him down the path of self-reflection or he could just double down and struggle towards his goals which might ultimately lead to his own demise.

 

I also had this little idea that Hardy and his Zoroark will obtain Perfection. Aside from someone like Tristan the dude is doing everything in his power to save Zoroark. He cares deeply for his pokémon, so much so he abandoned his hopes and dreams of becoming the Champion and ended up working with a criminal gang in order find a cure for it. Having a subordinate and a test subject obtain the one Waldenhall is pursuing sounds like peak irony. Quite a slap in the face for Waldenhall. Who knows if something like that could drive a wedge between him and the Foxes. Or maybe he’d make use of it somehow to further his own ends. It would be quite interesting to see what he’d do in a situation like that.

 

Waldenhall has a lot of connections to other characters which could potentially help flesh out him as a character and give him more depth beyond chasing his ambition. He has his past mentor relationship with Reeve, the brewing conflict between Baron and Artem, the Garret/Eden situation, a potential conflict with Darkrai’s trainer and the rocky alliance with the Foxes. Such conflicts could elicit hidden motivations out of him and, depending on what happens, could start shifting his current goals.

I also have to wonder what he would even do if he even achieved Perfection. Spending so many years chasing it…he’s bound to have some idea, right? Though I suppose if it turns out he doesn’t have any plan speaks volumes.

 

Just gonna spitball some wackier ideas here. Stuff that borders on the line of a runaway imagination rather than anything concrete from the game!

Maybe he comes from a similar background to Reeve. He may be brilliant and skilled, but he has nothing to his name and that bothers him. So, he pours years of his life into this research with Reeve, hoping to gain recognition. A way to prove his existence. His greatness. Maybe even had a thought or two of how it could aid Ayrith for the better, but in the end this type of research isn’t something that can be valued by the public. Not something that can give him the recognition he deserves, not unless he succeeds. He cannot go back to having nothing at all, being nothing at all, having his name fade away like the names of first trainers who arrived on Ayrith. The only way to achieve his goals now is to make it his sole driving force. He has no other choice.

 

Huge crack theory but he turns out to be Emily and Connor’s estranged father or father that left them as children to pursue his research. It’s the blond hair and red eyes man... Putting the legitimacy of that theory aside, a family aspect such as that and all the complexities they hold could also help give the ambitious scientist angle more depth.

 

There’s a part of me that really wants him to get his way somehow, preferably by some loophole or something. Let him get what he wants. The plane of creation or whatever it is can sense his “impurity” so any creation he crafts will reflect his very nature. His nature that refused to love and care for pokémon or anyone else. Everything he constructs ends up corrupted and filled with a burning flame of ambition and a black heart void of empathy and love. He ends up hunted by his creations for control of the place. Since there’s no theoretical way to get back, he’d just be stuck in this Perfection plane of existence.

 

Now watch him get turned to dust next episode and then both him and my ideas can just blow away in the wind xD

[Vit]

I do hope they develop Waldenhall,
as power for the sake of power feels boring.

Stories about attaining power to fulfill a meaningful purpose, as you pointed out, are much better.
Even better if that purpose involves internal struggle—like Hardy’s journey with Zoroark.

 

I really like your theory about Hardy and Zoroark being "in the race" to achieve perfection.
Zoroark's ability to look like other Pokémon could create some incredible story twists.
However, while it’s an exciting option, there needs to be a purpose tied to the greater story. Otherwise, it risks turning into a cavalcade of character introductions, with too many storylines that don’t truly matter and just confuse the player.

 

It would be ironic if Waldenhall achieved perfection without any Pokémon—just him, somehow fighting in a form that’s half Pokémon, his body literally imprisoned by his inner demons.
It would be wild if Darkrai caught him in a Pokéball. Uno Reverse silliness! But honestly, I’m just tired right now, and silliness wouldn’t fit the tone of the Desolation story.

 

It’s impressive how well you remember all the different characters. I’m struggling with that, which is why your estranged father theory goes over my head in terms of how it fits into the story.
I might relate more to an estranged narcissistic mother, though.

 

Like you, I am interested in exploring the things you described—most of all, discovering what we, the player, really are.
What am I? But i guess with our choices mattering so much in Desolation, it could be a corny - we are what we choose to be.

I do however hope for a bit more than that. It's the biggest cliff hanger for me.

[Luri]

On 11/24/2024 at 3:56 PM, Vit said:

I do hope they develop Waldenhall,
as power for the sake of power feels boring.

Stories about attaining power to fulfill a meaningful purpose, as you pointed out, are much better.
Even better if that purpose involves internal struggle—like Hardy’s journey with Zoroark.

 

I really like your theory about Hardy and Zoroark being "in the race" to achieve perfection.
Zoroark's ability to look like other Pokémon could create some incredible story twists.
However, while it’s an exciting option, there needs to be a purpose tied to the greater story. Otherwise, it risks turning into a cavalcade of character introductions, with too many storylines that don’t truly matter and just confuse the player.

 

It would be ironic if Waldenhall achieved perfection without any Pokémon—just him, somehow fighting in a form that’s half Pokémon, his body literally imprisoned by his inner demons.
It would be wild if Darkrai caught him in a Pokéball. Uno Reverse silliness! But honestly, I’m just tired right now, and silliness wouldn’t fit the tone of the Desolation story.

 

It’s impressive how well you remember all the different characters. I’m struggling with that, which is why your estranged father theory goes over my head in terms of how it fits into the story.
I might relate more to an estranged narcissistic mother, though.

 

Like you, I am interested in exploring the things you described—most of all, discovering what we, the player, really are.
What am I? But i guess with our choices mattering so much in Desolation, it could be a corny - we are what we choose to be.

I do however hope for a bit more than that. It's the biggest cliff hanger for me.

 

Yep yep, power works best with a motive to fulfill a meaningful purpose (I suppose most things do lol).

Personally, I think power for the sake of power can work well if it’s a desire that is spurned on by a lack of agency or freedom for a character. Situations that would actively cause someone to seek out power or positions of power and use it for themselves. That sort of hurt people hurt people phenomenon.

But so far it doesn’t seem that Waldenhall falls into this camp so we will see if he has a greater goal to achieve!

 

Not only would Zoroark look so cool with a shiny new Perfection form, but its ability could absolutely give us some great twists along the way! The prospects omg….

I do think it would have a purpose in the overarching story. Hardy was introduced to the player as early as Route 2 and has cropped up several times in the main story. He was chosen specifically by Lilith and he’s now a high-ranking Black Fox. He has quite a bit more story significance than characters like Aderyn the flying type gym leader or Aaron the steel type gym leader (sorry Aaron, you’ve been on the sidelines for a while now. Hope he makes a return at some point). To add to his story presence Hardy and Emily are the only two prominent characters that have silhouettes in the Wildlands Cave in the Dreamscape. Even now I’m not quite sure what that really means in the grand scheme of things but it’s such an odd detail to persist throughout the episodes that it feels significant in some way. I think he has quite a bit of story relevance still.

 

His Zoroark is part of their Project Perfection so it is most likely being dosed with Perfection serum. His arc will eventually have to tackle that. And it would be a perfect time to do exactly that now that we have an inkling of what Perfection is. Hardy’s situation could provide a unique perspective of Perfection and give us more context about it. We got to see Umbreon's transformation but as far as we know Perfection hasn't affected Lilith. If Hardy's Zoroark gains the Perfection state would Hardy also be unaffected? Or would it be different for him? Plus Hardy isn’t chasing Perfection for Perfection’s sake. He is a contrast to those with a desire to use Perfection for their own gains. And with Lilith currently MIA (who knows if she’ll be back in time to help the protagonists…that last note attached to the Black Piece is kinda sketch imo) Hardy could fill this role until Lilith is found or the protagonist obtains a Perfection mon of their own.

 

If it turns out not to be a “in the race” situation (I could be overestimating that aspect given that Darkrai’s trainer has already booked it over to Darkrai…things might fall apart a lot quicker than anticipated) then he could still have a hand in the plot as an ally. He only allied himself with the Foxes to help his pokémon and I don’t think that’s changed even now that he’s in the higher ranks of the Foxes. Zoroark gaining Perfection could provide extra firepower if things get dicey for the heroes. It might not be as thematically strong as him being a proper candidate and what that signifies in conjunction to the other two, but it could most certainly add more spice to the story!

 

Of course, the whole counter to all this is that artificial Perfection serum has never produced anything but failures, leading to the idea that Perfection cannot be man-made or artificially constructed. Assuming Zoroark has been juiced up with Perfection serum then based on those results Zoroark will probably meet the same fate as other experiments.

However, if this whole theory has some merit, it could throw out some of Waldenhall’s and Team Cresent’s findings…that Perfection can’t be manufactured. Or at the very least it might show that the stringent requirement of Perfection outweighs the synthetic recreation aspect. It might be less about how it’s obtained and more about adhering to the aspects of bonds and desolation. That’d be kinda neat.

 

Oh, the irony of that would be so good! If Waldenhall does achieve Perfection without pokémon some repercussions have to happen. Absolutely! I think that’d make for an exciting turn of events! I agree, tonally the main plot beats usually reflect the gravity of the situation pretty well and any levity in them tends to be down-to-earth and fitting for the cast imo. Not to say silliness doesn’t have its place…Jarred and Ryder brings that in spades!

 

I also think Darkrai would probably just yeet him into the Grid and call it good! If anyone from Team Darkrai were to do such a thing, my money is on Shiv (assuming he’s truly drunk the kool-aid at this point and will be more antagonistic going forward). He’s pretty dramatic so I can see him doing it to toy around with Waldenhall. It’s certainly silly, could be framed as borderline mocking, but also doubled as a show of force. In that essence it coulddddd work.

Or combine it with disposing of the pokeball in some fashion. Like Aurora yeeting the pokeball and it smashes to pieces or use poke-Waldenhall in battle or something along those lines and presto! Now the silliness a moment ago isn’t so silly anymore…it takes on a darker hue. Might be a bit more fitting for the situation at hand.

 

In all honesty I’ve played Deso on and off for several years now…I think I stumbled upon it around e3? E4? Somewhere around there. So certain characters have been ingrained in my noggin (clearly just not Cedric xD)! The Waldenhall estranged theory is more of a crackpot theory that doesn’t have any strong evidence. Emily, Connor’s sister and electric type gym leader, has blonde hair and red eyes and I think of her every time I see Waldenhall. And Connor is seeking his own form of power; to be a strong trainer. He’s never satisfied and since he stepped foot on Arcanius he’s been even more impatient and rash. He is jumping into things alone and relying on his own strength at the expense of others. He burned the fallen logs that the workers were trying to clear despite the fact that could have caused a forest fire. Can’t forget that also means they have no work now. Plus, he ran into the group of Foxes alone and the protagonist, Scarlett, and Garret had to jump in to help.

 

It’s very loose interpretation at best and more of a silly theory than anything else. The plausibility is quite slim. But entertaining the scenario I’d think it’d be an interesting family dynamic for Waldenhall. Plus, it’d give more time for development between the three of them. Maybe those traits of Connor’s stem from this estranged relationship with Waldenhall? And Emily obtained more of the physical traits?

That’s about it :). There’s still time for an estranged narcissistic mother to enter the picture if Waldenhall turns out to be a bust! At the very least I feel like that could make for some interesting headcanons. My heart goes out to you on that front!

 

Totally, when there are choices present within a game there will always be a small aspect of we are what we choose to be. Especially if we get a story split later on (no idea if we will or not but fun prospect to consider). But there is most certainly something more lurking beneath the surface. The protagonist’s past has potential to recontextualize the present self. Maybe piecing together their past will draw out a dormant personality (each protagonist seems to have a distinct personality shown through flavor text when changing character appearance in Cellia Central)? If the protagonist proves to be a part of Darkrai’s trainer in some form or another then that opens up a can of possibilities. Of course, there’s always the chance that their present self might not change much after the reveal. But external factors can change. Like as far as I can tell it doesn’t seem like Darkrai recognized the protagonist the way the entity (probably Darkrai’s trainer) eventually did. How others react to the knowledge will be interesting at the very least.

 

I definitely hear ya! It’s been a hotttt minute since I’ve played earlier versions so grain of salt here but I kinda got that vibe more in earlier iterations of the game. More of an unfortunate soul who happened to get caught up in the thick of all this. The protagonist washing ashore near Darkroot with protagonist amnesia and the mysterious connection with the major antagonists was not on my bingo card when booting up e6! So, I do hope we get a bit more on that front as well :)