The nature of the world of Rejuvenation.

[Magus543]

So with the reveals of V13.5. I think the direction of the plot is that the world we're in is also a game in-universe as well. There's an A.I. that talks about building new versions of the world like he's a game developer, everything to do with Eizen, the Xen Grunts speak in Lorem Ipsum as if they were dummied out characters given placeholder text, Vitus and Nymiera are computer programs given form so who is to say that doesn't apply to everyone else since Karma has written out the plot in advance, and even Nim's storm-9 form resembles Missing No, the famous glitch Pokemon.

 

This is some big Metal Gear Solid 2 VR theory energy. I'm not exactly thrilled by this idea but I'm willing to follow this story to the end since I like the characters even if all their dialogue and personalities are pre-programmed like a video game. 

 

If we do assume everything in-universe is a video game, then it certainly puts a different spin on Alice's actions. 

[SoulN7]

To be honest, I'm not sure how to feel about the whole "Eizen" thing, I don't like very much his presence in the game. Other than that, it's like you said, but they think their world has "version" of itself, they don't think this is a game but more the repeat of the old cycle between Old Earth and New Earth. They justify this or things like NG+ and Inconsitency with rift in space-time and stuffs. Nim also resembles Karma's pattern in Rift Talon's appearance, now that I think about it.

[Magus543]

32 minutes ago, SoulN7 said:

To be honest, I'm not sure how to feel about the whole "Eizen" thing, I don't like very much his presence in the game. Other than that, it's like you said, but they think their world has "version" of itself, they don't think this is a game but more the repeat of the old cycle between Old Earth and New Earth. They justify this or things like NG+ and Inconsitency with rift in space-time and stuffs. Nim also resembles Karma's pattern in Rift Talon's appearance, now that I think about it.

Well considering the presence of M2 who is explicitly a Melia from a previous version, it's totally possible that each reset IS a new version of a cast and the cast we know from the older versions have been deleted.

 

[SoulN7]

6 minutes ago, Magus543 said:

Well considering the presence of M2 who is explicitly a Melia from a previous version, it's totally possible that each reset IS a new version of a cast and the cast we know from the older versions have been deleted.

 

If I remember correctly, even the MC is from another version, since they don't remember the actual look of Central Building. Other than that, yeah, it could be that type of reset. I'm...not sure, but M2 never called her powers "Archetype", but only "the light within her", so I think she could be from before Chapter 13?

[Mythril]

I am convinced that the game is one huge meta commentary on game development along with the question, "What happens to the characters in the game when you delete your save and start again?" Since we as the player are a separate consciousness from the actual person that is the MC, we would have knowledge that surpasses what should be known at that time. We are basically told as much, the only one that remembers the old world is the one that reset it and all that. As for the appearance of older versions of characters, by the nature of the technology we currently use, when you delete a file on your computer, it doesn't really disappear. The 1s and 0s are still there, your computer just doesn't recognize them any more until new data writes over it. It is a common trope that when programming fixing one bug breaks the whole program, well we "fixed" the problem of Vivian unaliving herself and we see what happened there. We literally had to go back and undo the "fix" in order for the game to continue.  Even having major characters be personifications of computer programs fits with the theme, it is not uncommon to use third party tools (RPGmaker, Pokemon Essentials) as the backbone of your own work.

 

To be fair, Rejuvenation is a master class on storytelling and world building. It isn't all commentary, but the way that they present the themes entwined within the story is super creative and I love it. 

[NathanDrei]

2 minutes ago, Mythril said:

I am convinced that the game is one huge meta commentary on game development along with the question, "What happens to the characters in the game when you delete your save and start again?" Since we as the player are a separate consciousness from the actual person that is the MC, we would have knowledge that surpasses what should be known at that time. We are basically told as much, the only one that remembers the old world is the one that reset it and all that. As for the appearance of older versions of characters, by the nature of the technology we currently use, when you delete a file on your computer, it doesn't really disappear. The 1s and 0s are still there, your computer just doesn't recognize them any more until new data writes over it. It is a common trope that when programming fixing one bug breaks the whole program, well we "fixed" the problem of Vivian unaliving herself and we see what happened there. We literally had to go back and undo the "fix" in order for the game to continue.

honestly, undertale was definitely a meta commentary on characters being aware they were in a game,

 

and Jan decided that it simply wasn't enough, and just went full on "What happens to the characters in the game when you delete your save and start again?" while making a great story in the process

[Cyphre]

Any kind of meta commentary appeared only in 13.5 and essentially deleted a lot of narrative importance from previous 80 hours of the game, before 13.5 everything still existed only within constraints of the world. So this being one whole big meta commentary is simply wrong, considering some things also were retconned and likely still will be. Maybe Jan played Undertale 7 years later and decided it's a cool idea, who knows. Also there are so many hanging threads that are not connected or just don't really matter that it's outstandingly far from the masterpiece, we will see once the game will be finished. 

 

Narratively there are 3 things you can do that undermine entire games so hard it completely ruin them: 1) It was a dream. 2) It was a simulation and it didn't matter. 3) We time travelled so none of it happened. I have enough respect for Jan's writing to firmly believe it is not just a simulation of Karma or anything like it.

 

In the light of 13.5 i believe it is simply that, world being reset over and over, with Interceptor getting closer each time towards the perfect ending, and versions of the game are simply versions of the world. Also i still think WLL was the first world chronologically we know of, even if it came around version what, 5 or 6 or 7, i don't exactly remember. 

[Magus543]

3 minutes ago, Cyphre said:

Any kind of meta commentary appeared only in 13.5 and essentially deleted a lot of narrative importance from previous 80 hours of the game, before 13.5 everything still existed only within constraints of the world. So this being one whole big meta commentary is simply wrong, considering some things also were retconned and likely still will be. Maybe Jan played Undertale 7 years later and decided it's a cool idea, who knows. Also there are so many hanging threads that are not connected or just don't really matter that it's outstandingly far from the masterpiece, we will see once the game will be finished. 

 

Narratively there are 3 things you can do that undermine entire games so hard it completely ruin them: 1) It was a dream. 2) It was a simulation and it didn't matter. 3) We time travelled so none of it happened. I have enough respect for Jan's writing to firmly believe it is not just a simulation of Karma or anything like it.

 

In the light of 13.5 i believe it is simply that, world being reset over and over, with Interceptor getting closer each time towards the perfect ending, and versions of the game are simply versions of the world. Also i still think WLL was the first world chronologically we know of, even if it came around version what, 5 or 6 or 7, i don't exactly remember. 

Where Love Lies was released around V10 IIRC. 

[Cyphre]

Just now, Magus543 said:

Where Love Lies was released around V10 IIRC. 

That's true, i stand corrected, been a while. A tiny bit before v10 so technically v9, close enough. I am also concerned about narrative implications of the "Escape" door in the dev room, despite a disclaimer saying everything beyond that point is not canon i do not like the implications of that door. 

[SoulN7]

2 minutes ago, Magus543 said:

Where Love Lies was released around V10 IIRC. 

V10 would be the time Melia knew about her powers before knowing name, where they came from and problems with Genesis Syndrome.

[Magus543]

1 minute ago, Cyphre said:

That's true, i stand corrected, been a while. A tiny bit before v10 so technically v9, close enough. I am also concerned about narrative implications of the "Escape" door in the dev room, despite a disclaimer saying everything beyond that point is not canon i do not like the implications of that door. 

I strongly suspect the dev room will become relevant eventually in the Renegade route.