How much power does Karma actually have? *spoilers*

[Zohnical]

We know it picks people to go after you in Renegade and can corrupt them, but what if it’s saving its trump card in bringing back the deleted?

 

I just think if you can find and restore a deleted file, what’s stopping it from playing tic-for-tac with the Renegadeceptor and then upping the ante one way or another? Just a random shower thought, but imagine the curve balls thrown with Karma pulling someone back at random and someone else joining in, see the wrath of Tesla if Amber is restored for example, then your "Family" disowns you and hits you hard, like lvl 100's vs your 90s.

sure someone on the team will glean some ideas from this

[dudeguyman]

I'm getting conflicting messages on this.

On one end I'm drawn to think that Karma is extremely powerful:

•  It created a Paradox Gear in the ruined timeline
• It straight-up transformed Talon into a monster in the Renegade timeline
• There's the mystery of what's behind the Team Lorem Ipsum quest in the Paragon timeline, whatever it is it's extremely powerful, and Karma was definitely involved (was it Venam or Aelita? Either way, one of them "heard a familiar voice" before the raid started, but she was out of screen when that happened, so, the presence of Karma's eye cannot be confirmed)
• It REWRITES the Nightmare Remix battle into the regular Evil Gardevoir battle. (But Nightmare Remix is a NG+ bonus, this might be non-canon)

On the other, I think that Karma is rather weak or limited:

• Karma hasn't been shown to be able to make anyone do whatever at any moment, but it needs slowly corrupt people over time, Talon even managed to tank several days of Karma's influence until he snapped and went after MC
• Karma might be able to only influence a limited amount of people at any given time, otherwise why would it corrupt one person at a time instead of trying to overwhelm Renegade MC with numbers? That numbers also is more than one: Karma influences both Alexandra and MC at the same time in the train to GDC

But, all the arguments for Karma being weak might just be Karma trying to play 5D chess.

There's also another detail: even if Karma might be be able to bring back people from the dead, Renegade MC doesn't kill people normally, but uses End of Night which erases its target across the entirety of space and time. Which is stronger, Karma or End of Night?

Edited April 26 by dudeguyman

[Zohnical]

9 hours ago, dudeguyman said:

I'm getting conflicting messages on this.

On one end I'm drawn to think that Karma is extremely powerful:

•  It created a Paradox Gear in the ruined timeline
• It straight-up transformed Talon into a monster in the Renegade timeline
• There's the mystery of what's behind the Team Lorem Ipsum quest in the Paragon timeline, whatever it is it's extremely powerful, and Karma was definitely involved (was it Venam or Aelita? Either way, one of them "heard a familiar voice" before the raid started, but she was out of screen when that happened, so, the presence of Karma's eye cannot be confirmed)
• It REWRITES the Nightmare Remix battle into the regular Evil Gardevoir battle. (But Nightmare Remix is a NG+ bonus, this might be non-canon)

On the other, I think that Karma is rather weak or limited:

• Karma hasn't been shown to be able to make anyone do whatever at any moment, but it needs slowly corrupt people over time, Talon even managed to tank several days of Karma's influence until he snapped and went after MC
• Karma might be able to only influence a limited amount of people at any given time, otherwise why would it corrupt one person at a time instead of trying to overwhelm Renegade MC with numbers? That numbers also is more than one: Karma influences both Alexandra and MC at the same time in the train to GDC

But, all the arguments for Karma being weak might just be Karma trying to play 5D chess.

There's also another detail: even if Karma might be be able to bring back people from the dead, Renegade MC doesn't kill people normally, but uses End of Night which erases its target across the entirety of space and time. Which is stronger, Karma or End of Night?

 

I just figured if Karma could be capable of bring people back from being Obliterated, it negates Renegadeceptor's trump card, then it could also create more Rift forms. I think it's just toying around atm, studying to see what it could do next time around. It was Aelita btw who heard Karma at the end:

(7:46)

 

We're not the first interceptors, and the worlds been reset before, so its dealt with Renegades before. Again, didn't make myself clear above, I think it will restore a few deleted people like Amber or Talon, make people remember them and realize what you did and then Karma will more explicitly rub it in your face. The fact it hasn't probably is just it letting you think you can outplay it, or as you said, 5D chess, like "Oh, this Aussie came after me, and I just deleted him (and possibly his friend)", when in reality, its biding its time waiting for the moment you can't afford to screw up to throw down the gauntlet.

 

Curious if this is what the team has in mind, feel they have somewhat of an idea. Also, what day was the Team Lorem Ipsum quest on? Gonna rewatch it now.

[dudeguyman]

4 hours ago, Zohnical said:

Curious if this is what the team has in mind, feel they have somewhat of an idea. Also, what day was the Team Lorem Ipsum quest on? Gonna rewatch it now.

I think it's the 11th or something. Anyway, when Melia talks to MC remotely via the Zeight, Aelita and Venam are off-screen and one of them checks on MC claiming to have heard a familiar voice. Melia is confused on how Aelita/Venam might have possibly heard a telepathic message to MC, and, later on, she pulls the same trick with both of them on screen but neither of them hears anything. This reeks of Karma.

[Zohnical]

even in Paragon, Karma is messing with you