Tier Discussion (OU/Ubers)

[Ikaru]

I see, and admittedly that Dragonite was poorly worded; to be honest that all comes from previous experience and theory since I don't battle much anymore so a lot of people know better than I do. The majority of your last post seems logical enough but I'd like for any opposition to elaborate on their views regardless, if only because it WAS banned elsewhere and I know there are still several people who don't like it.

[Raindrop Valkyrie]

I am just not sure. Because I feel Rotom-W is much more frustrating to play against then Genesect imo. It has 1 weaknesses as well, but it is only x2. It has better Bulk and has nearly the same speed and is close to it in power. It may not have as many options, but you still have to figure out if it is running Scarf, Specs, or running the odd rest/lum set. (I have seen it quite a bit.). Maybe that is just me I have never really had problems with Genesect, and I am new to battling. That is my 2 cents about it. I don't think Genesect is broken, but I don't really know why others do, would like to hear their side if anybody is willing to go in-depth.

[Lord Emvee]

The problem with Genesect is that it has everything. While it isn't particularly tanky, it has a good defensive typing. It has excellent attacking stats across the board, and backs them up with an incredible movepool. It has both unpredictability and power. The combination is broken, not having either. There should be a tradeoff. Talonflame is very good at what it does - and pretty much every talonflame runs the same set as the last 10. Smeargle is the epitome of unpredictable, but it isn't very good at anything, lacking the stats to back up the movepool.

Another false statement keep them coming please! The problem isn't Genesect having everything. Even though there is too much to choose from, it most certainly can't have everything at the same time. Plus like I said before, you can't ban something because it's unpredictable; that just shows you're scared. You should probably read my other posts because I'm not going to repeat the same stuff over and over again.

[Shamitako]

I have never had a problem with Rotom-W, 2HKO at the most. But then again, I usually take down Y Mewtwo with my Mismagius (Which is in UU BTW), so I may just not be facing very strong opponents

EDIT: Really I think that which Pokemon you personally have trouble with doesn't say much, different people are good at different things and have different teams. I use both Rotom-W and Y Mewtwo as setup fodder for said Mismagius, but nearly my entire team dies to Aegislash

Genesect has always come off as being pretty tough to beat. Not because of its typing or stats, but because it has such a massive movepool. You can never really have any idea what it's going to do, and it is pretty good at all of what it can do

Edited March 4, 2014 by MasterWeavile898

[Raindrop Valkyrie]

I guess that is true, but you can usually figure out it's set by one move or how it switches etc, why I really don't have problem with it. (though I am just good at connecting dots backwards through.) I think it is just a case of trying to keep everything straight in your head. But eh, I dunno.

[The Radiant Aeon]

Another false statement keep them coming please! The problem isn't Genesect having everything. Even though there is too much to choose from, it most certainly can't have everything at the same time. Plus like I said before, you can't ban something because it's unpredictable; that just shows you're scared. You should probably read my other posts because I'm not going to repeat the same stuff over and over again.

Can you please respond without sounding like a complete douche? I really respect your play man, but come on, you're just making yourself sound bad. And as for banning or not banning, it is the collective conscious of the community. (AKA. General thoughts or opinions on the subject matter and overall judgement of the said subject matter, thus being Genesect being banned in this case) If Genesect was considered not uber standard later down the line, it will revert to OU, and do OU shenanigans. Thing is, while somethings can counter/check a certain set, it doesn't mean that the player may or may not have a counter to that set. I mean,while Heatran is a solid choice vs Genesect (since Heatran is used a special wall), NOT EVERYONE WILL USE HEATRAN. And being banned from a certain tier means that that Pokemon is overly used (PUNS) in that tier, and is extremely good in that tier. In this case Genesect is not only a common Pokemon, but has effective sets. Not only that, it has a diverse movepool with so much to the table, ranging from momentum shifting U-Turns, Shift Gear set up sweeps, and a variety of both Special and Physical moves that make it "unpredictable" to many people. So...He is just good, and very well common in OU teams in general.

In other words, I wasn't surprised that it was banned. Many people have trouble dealing with it, they being good or total noobs (or in my case, old people who rarely play so much since it is a hassle (Even though I still like discussions on the competitive nature of pokemon, which is why I participated in this topic in the first place(Long parenthesis isn't it?) That being said, I respect your opinions and have full intention to listen to an illustrious play

[Raindrop Valkyrie]

Imma say this many people feel this way, I don't mind if it gets banned, but mostly since I don't use him so it doesn't effect me much. So I am going to be done with this for now, unless you guys pull me in again somehow.

[Cowtao]

Good team-building can do that for you, though while you're in battle, generally people don't have more than 1 Choice Scarf user, so if you see any other Scarf-mon then Genesect is most likely not a Choice Scarf user. Similarly, if you see a Choice Banded Pokemon that isn't Genesect, the Genesect that they'll have is probably not a Choice Banded set. It just takes some thinking but ultimately I don't see that as a reason to ban the Pokemon, especially since there are many Pokemon in the 6G Meta to beat it. / There will always be defined answers to all Pokemon in general (example: Genesect: Heatran, Rotom-H, etc). Unpredictability is always a natural factor of competitive battling and one shouldn't be afraid of what they don't fully understand.

These statements are incorrect. Implying that we should "get better" at team-building is a terrible excuse to imply that Genesect is a balancing factor. A balance factor is what it is, balanced. Forcing people to switch into using Heatran, Rotom-H, or using Genesect itself is not balancing the meta, it's over centralizing it. Speaking of using Genesect, having to using Genesect to counter it itself is absolutely crap. The ideology of "If it's overpowered, then you yourself have to use it" is not a good excuse, in fact it's doing the opposite effect on most people. Also, define beat because there is not many pokemon that can "beat" Genesect. You can revenge kill it sure but, there is an extremely small handful of pokemon that can "beat" Genesect. Genesect's game is highly dependent on the player and 9/10, Genesect excels at whatever task it's given. How are we supposed to know that Genesect was going to kill my Garchomp so his Garchomp or Charizard-X can setup and sweep?

Also, unpredictability is the exact reason why Genesect is getting banned in the first place. There are many variables like you said that Genesect has the ability to use. We have to think hard on what set of Genesect you could be running. What if you are running Iron Head instead of Flamethrower, Ice Beam instead of Bug Buzz, Explosion instead of U-Turn? Unpredictability can differ between pokemon to pokemon. Gengar is a good exmaple as Gengar can run multiple sets effectively. The difference between that and Genesect is that it can't be thrown on most teams to fit most purposes, has more glaring weaknesses compared Genesect, and has much more Checks and Counters to it. If Gengar was a problem, we would have thrown it in the Tier Discussion list.

This statement is entirely false. It is in fact the Genesect users that promote originality, since there are so many different types of move-sets you can possibly use (Choice Scarf, Choice Band, Life Orb, Expert Belt, Rock Polish, Focus Sash, Shift Gear, Techno Blast, and the list goes on), and with creativity, newer sets can be made (I myself have even used a Magic Coat Genesect set on the Reborn Ladder once for fun/trolling). And the meta will be entirely balanced with all the changes implemented from this thread (bar Genesect moving from OU).

That statement in itself is false. Genesect doesn't promote originality, it only promotes originality in itself. What has Genesect done to the meta that forces people to run other set? Genesect has forced Stall to disappear, promoted more Hyper Offensive play, and killed off potential for other Leads like Greninja, Terrakion, or Anti-Meta Aegislash.

Anyways, before I begin, I'd like to point out some of the key changes between Gen 5 and Gen 6. I can admit, that during Gen 5, Genesect might have stood a chance as being a worthy suspect. I'm not quite sure I can say the same about Gen 6.

- The Steel type loses it's Dark and Ghost type resistance making stuff like Aegislash and Mega Mawile (Sucker Punch) for example, a worthy combatant against certain Genesect sets.

- The invention of the Assault Vest, ensuring capability of tanking Special hits and retaliating hard with KO'ing moves (for example, AV Conkeldurr is an all around check to most Genesect sets).

- New widely used priority users such as Talonflame allow for CB Brave Bird to OHKO Genesect right off the bat, and Klefki can cripple it and resist most of its attacks.

Those do exist as decent Checks and Counters towards Genesect but the problem is, when is that ever going to happen? If you are a smart Genesect user, you wouldn't let your Genesect die so early and switch it out towards something that automatically threatens said Checks. Like you said, if you are smart team-builder this thing wouldn't happen to Genesect and you would still win regardless.

I'm not here trying to be the bad guy. i'm just pointing out facts.

[Godot]

Ok... i'll evaluate then...

My issue with Genesect being in OU is not that it doesn't promote originality, but it over centralizes the Meta. Almost every High Ranked team has it, because if you don't have one, your doing something wrong. It is a Staple that goes on every OU team that is difficult to beat, tough to predict, and requires specific team building to beat. It also makes a lot of pokemon useless.

Sure it got some nerfs, ie: it doesn't resist Ghost and Dark by 1/2, now its 1/4, but this thing got more Buffs than it did nerfs, some that even slipped under the table... here are some examples...

A. It's typing hard counters the already "meh" fairy types making them even more unusable.

B. It has an even LARGER movepool than before.

C. One of the biggest threats against it, Chandulure, no longer has Shadow Tag. Making Countering or Checking Genesect a lot harder.

D. It's main Stab move, Bug Buzz got a buff... It now goes through subs making one of stall's primary tactic useless.

only other nerf that I can think of for Genesect is that there is no longer infinite rain to cover it's one and only weakness... but what ever...

This is somewhat a different thing, but Genesect to OU pokemon is Metaknight to Smash Bros Brawl. You go to a Smash tour and see the top 8 looks like this.

Metaknight

Metaknight

Metaknight

Metaknight

Ice Climbers

Metaknight

Metaknight

Metaknight

Does that comparison make sense to you guys?

[Neo]

Placeholder for a later post. Some of these arguments are weak as fuck. Either provide EVIDENCE and not an opinion or shut up.

[Chevaleresse]

Another false statement keep them coming please! The problem isn't Genesect having everything. Even though there is too much to choose from, it most certainly can't have everything at the same time. Plus like I said before, you can't ban something because it's unpredictable; that just shows you're scared. You should probably read my other posts because I'm not going to repeat the same stuff over and over again.

1. Saying that my statement is false is false on your part.

2. You're being a prick.

3. I've read all of the posts in this thread.

4. Unpredictability is a thing. Genesect, by virtue of its varied movepool, is pretty much guaranteed a KO on something on your team because you won't know what it is running. Usually, I see special Genesect, so I switch in Blissey when I see someone leading with it. One iron head later, I THINK I know what Genesect is running, so I send in Skarmory. One thunderbolt later, I know it's running a mixed, non-choice attacking set. If I don't switch, it has access to enough attack power to kill pretty much everything I've ever used as a lead in one or two turns.

5. There are no solid counters to it. Talonflame's Flare Blitz doesn't get priority, and Genesect can easily ohko with almost anything it has in its toolkit. Aegislash can check it if you out-predict, but you'll still lose since Genesect can just flamethrower you. Blaziken outspeeds after one turn, and can OHKO Genesect, but Genesect can Extremespeed Blaziken and likely KO after rocks or leave it in the red. Chansey can tank both physical and special Genesect, but can only Seismic Toss or Thunder Wave it, due to Chansey's horrid Sp.A and Genesect's Toxic immunity. Blissey can OHKO special Genesect but will never outspeed outside of Trick Room, and will probably be OHKO'd by Iron Head or Extremespeed. Skarmory walls physical variants but is usually 2-hit-KO'd by mixed and special variants. Gliscor might be able to wall it but can't really do anything to it in return, since it isn't weak to EQ. I can go on and on.

[James-Sensei]

I wanna say Klefki, cause its more of a of a troll then Sableye, Paralysis shenanigans, along with that swagger confuse means you won't be able to move 2/3 of the time, and then just abuse Foul Play throughout the match, also Taunting? Good luck with being paralyzed and confused, OH how about Magic Bounce...well its pretty rare, and I haven't seen a lot of Espeon's as of late and not many pokemon get them. Klefki is pretty much a pure hacker at this point, being pretty much luck based using the standard set used on the troll

[Chevaleresse]

I wanna say Klefki, cause its more of a of a troll then Sableye, Paralysis shenanigans, along with that swagger confuse means you won't be able to move 2/3 of the time, and then just abuse Foul Play throughout the match, also Taunting? Good luck with being paralyzed and confused, OH how about Magic Bounce...well its pretty rare, and I haven't seen a lot of Espeon's as of late and not many pokemon get them. Klefki is pretty much a pure hacker at this point, being pretty much luck based using the standard set used on the troll

Magic bounce is a hard counter to 90% of klefki sets, and the other 10% are still murdered by [insert fire attack here].

[Lord Emvee]

Can you please respond without sounding like a complete douche? I really respect your play man, but come on, you're just making yourself sound bad. And as for banning or not banning, it is the collective conscious of the community. (AKA. General thoughts or opinions on the subject matter and overall judgement of the said subject matter, thus being Genesect being banned in this case) If Genesect was considered not uber standard later down the line, it will revert to OU, and do OU shenanigans. Thing is, while somethings can counter/check a certain set, it doesn't mean that the player may or may not have a counter to that set. I mean,while Heatran is a solid choice vs Genesect (since Heatran is used a special wall), NOT EVERYONE WILL USE HEATRAN. And being banned from a certain tier means that that Pokemon is overly used (PUNS) in that tier, and is extremely good in that tier. In this case Genesect is not only a common Pokemon, but has effective sets. Not only that, it has a diverse movepool with so much to the table, ranging from momentum shifting U-Turns, Shift Gear set up sweeps, and a variety of both Special and Physical moves that make it "unpredictable" to many people. So...He is just good, and very well common in OU teams in general.

In other words, I wasn't surprised that it was banned. Many people have trouble dealing with it, they being good or total noobs (or in my case, old people who rarely play so much since it is a hassle (Even though I still like discussions on the competitive nature of pokemon, which is why I participated in this topic in the first place(Long parenthesis isn't it?) That being said, I respect your opinions and have full intention to listen to an illustrious play

Can you please respond without calling me a douche? I wonder which Reborn rule that breaks hmmmm. Anyways, I'm making good points so you should probably take it as such and respond back likewise. I honestly don't care if Genesect is banned or not (though I support it staying in OU), but I would like to see some of the opposing side try to make a decent enough standing on this issue. Claiming that not everyone will use Heatran is a poor attempt at justifying why Genesect is Uber material because Heatran isn't the only counter/check to Genesect. Being banned from a certain tier because of how often it is used, is also a pretty bad and overused claim (PUNS LOLOL). Isn't this the Overused tier after all, for Overused Pokemon? But yeah everything else you're saying after that is pretty much just "oh it's so good" so yeah I'll leave your opinions alone.

These statements are incorrect. Implying that we should "get better" at team-building is a terrible excuse to imply that Genesect is a balancing factor. A balance factor is what it is, balanced. Forcing people to switch into using Heatran, Rotom-H, or using Genesect itself is not balancing the meta, it's over centralizing it. Speaking of using Genesect, having to using Genesect to counter it itself is absolutely crap. The ideology of "If it's overpowered, then you yourself have to use it" is not a good excuse, in fact it's doing the opposite effect on most people. Also, define beat because there is not many pokemon that can "beat" Genesect. You can revenge kill it sure but, there is an extremely small handful of pokemon that can "beat" Genesect. Genesect's game is highly dependent on the player and 9/10, Genesect excels at whatever task it's given. How are we supposed to know that Genesect was going to kill my Garchomp so his Garchomp or Charizard-X can setup and sweep?

Never once implied that. Dunno what you're talking about. I just said with good team building you can beat threats in the the 6G OU Meta Game, including Genesect. Once again, Heatran and Rotom-H aren't Genesects only counters/checks. Don't even try to claim that there is an extremely small handful of Pokemon that can beat Genesect, because there are quite more than that. I'll be happy to settle this in a battle where you use Genesect and I won't (I'll be restricted from using Heatran and Rotom-H). But yeah I don't quite understand what you're trying to go at with everything else you say in this post, sorry.

Also, unpredictability is the exact reason why Genesect is getting banned in the first place. There are many variables like you said that Genesect has the ability to use. We have to think hard on what set of Genesect you could be running. What if you are running Iron Head instead of Flamethrower, Ice Beam instead of Bug Buzz, Explosion instead of U-Turn? Unpredictability can differ between pokemon to pokemon. Gengar is a good exmaple as Gengar can run multiple sets effectively. The difference between that and Genesect is that it can't be thrown on most teams to fit most purposes, has more glaring weaknesses compared Genesect, and has much more Checks and Counters to it. If Gengar was a problem, we would have thrown it in the Tier Discussion list.'

All you gotta do is predict. Say Genesect is brought in against your Terrakion, or your Clefable. Iron Head is such an obvious move here, so that completely narrows down the set to Physical Scarf or Band. If you completely shut your mind off in a battle then I agree Genesect is Ubers material.

That statement in itself is false. Genesect doesn't promote originality, it only promotes originality in itself. What has Genesect done to the meta that forces people to run other set? Genesect has forced Stall to disappear, promoted more Hyper Offensive play, and killed off potential for other Leads like Greninja, Terrakion, or Anti-Meta Aegislash.

Those do exist as decent Checks and Counters towards Genesect but the problem is, when is that ever going to happen? If you are a smart Genesect user, you wouldn't let your Genesect die so early and switch it out towards something that automatically threatens said Checks. Like you said, if you are smart team-builder this thing wouldn't happen to Genesect and you would still win regardless.

You're right, Genesect promotes originality in itself. That's my point thank you for backing me up. And after all, this is the Overused tier, and Genesect is an Overused Pokemon, so it belongs here.

I'm not here trying to be the bad guy. i'm just pointing out facts.

No worries you helped my claim out a lot. Thank you.

[Chevaleresse]

meh, forgot heatran. Heatran itself is not too difficult to kill, though, and Genesect can just U-Turn out.

[Lord Emvee]

1. Saying that my statement is false is false on your part.

Prove me wrong.

2. You're being a prick.

Is that the best you can do?

3. I've read all of the posts in this thread.

Nope.

4. Unpredictability is a thing. Genesect, by virtue of its varied movepool, is pretty much guaranteed a KO on something on your team because you won't know what it is running. Usually, I see special Genesect, so I switch in Blissey when I see someone leading with it. One iron head later, I THINK I know what Genesect is running, so I send in Skarmory. One thunderbolt later, I know it's running a mixed, non-choice attacking set. If I don't switch, it has access to enough attack power to kill pretty much everything I've ever used as a lead in one or two turns.

Read my posts about unpredictability. It has a variety, but it can't have everything in 1 set.

5. There are no solid counters to it. Talonflame's Flare Blitz doesn't get priority, and Genesect can easily ohko with almost anything it has in its toolkit. Aegislash can check it if you out-predict, but you'll still lose since Genesect can just flamethrower you. Blaziken outspeeds after one turn, and can OHKO Genesect, but Genesect can Extremespeed Blaziken and likely KO after rocks or leave it in the red. Chansey can tank both physical and special Genesect, but can only Seismic Toss or Thunder Wave it, due to Chansey's horrid Sp.A and Genesect's Toxic immunity. Blissey can OHKO special Genesect but will never outspeed outside of Trick Room, and will probably be OHKO'd by Iron Head or Extremespeed. Skarmory walls physical variants but is usually 2-hit-KO'd by mixed and special variants. Gliscor might be able to wall it but can't really do anything to it in return, since it isn't weak to EQ. I can go on and on.

Heatran, SDef Jellicent, and Rotom-H are definitely some of the best counters to Genesect. There are a plethora of checks however. You seriously need to read my post about Counters and Checks, because this completely proves you didn't read it properly. Look for the thing I said about Terrakion.

Edited March 5, 2014 by So Heroic

[Godot]

Heatran has tons of weaknesses though, he the dark and ghost not resisted by steel hurt him way more than Genesect

[Ikaru]

Friendly reminder to keep it civil before this has to get shut down like everything else of the sort usually does!

Let's do without the name-calling or the assumptions about reading/not reading and battle skill and all of that, please.

[Bluewolf]

Although I love MegaLucario I have no complaints. Its about time Genesect was put where it belonged. Nice job staff people (or whoever decides stuff like this)

[Raindrop Valkyrie]

Yea not sure why we need to resort to namecalling. if your opinion differs good, that is what fuels discussion, and discussion is the point of the thread. However, all meaningful discussion stops when the name calling starts. Everybody has good points, so don't just shoot each other down. Like I agree with things everybody is saying which is why I dropped out of the convo cause I felt I didn't really have more to add to the Genesect convo since we have gotten out all the points I can think of.

[diana]

I'm gonna make a few points.

-We can civilly discuss tiers without "Read my posts", having a constant attitude to everyone that opposes you, and also kind of implying everyone "needs to step up and not suck." I've seen this last bit in multiple posts of your, including your recent RMT- "the reborn battling community is pathetic", "i'll show you what a hand looks like before it slaps the shit outta you in battle", etc. This attitude really kinda isn't cool in the slightest.

-For the rest of you, we can also not jump on the gangbang train of prove-heroic-wrong, because in this he's not the only offending party. We have that rule of "be respectful to ALL members. We can argue and counter-argue just fine, but please try and have some kind of limit to how much slandering you put out. Preferably none at all.

Let's try and tone it down, or like Iakru said, this'll be locked like every other kind of tier discussion thread.

i tried really hard on this. follow it.
You did good, son But yeah no slandering at all -Kio

[Chevaleresse]

1. Saying that my statement is false is false on your part.

Prove me wrong.

2. You're being a prick.

Is that the best you can do?

3. I've read all of the posts in this thread.

Nope.

4. Unpredictability is a thing. Genesect, by virtue of its varied movepool, is pretty much guaranteed a KO on something on your team because you won't know what it is running. Usually, I see special Genesect, so I switch in Blissey when I see someone leading with it. One iron head later, I THINK I know what Genesect is running, so I send in Skarmory. One thunderbolt later, I know it's running a mixed, non-choice attacking set. If I don't switch, it has access to enough attack power to kill pretty much everything I've ever used as a lead in one or two turns.

Read my posts about unpredictability. It has a variety, but it can't have everything in 1 set.

5. There are no solid counters to it. Talonflame's Flare Blitz doesn't get priority, and Genesect can easily ohko with almost anything it has in its toolkit. Aegislash can check it if you out-predict, but you'll still lose since Genesect can just flamethrower you. Blaziken outspeeds after one turn, and can OHKO Genesect, but Genesect can Extremespeed Blaziken and likely KO after rocks or leave it in the red. Chansey can tank both physical and special Genesect, but can only Seismic Toss or Thunder Wave it, due to Chansey's horrid Sp.A and Genesect's Toxic immunity. Blissey can OHKO special Genesect but will never outspeed outside of Trick Room, and will probably be OHKO'd by Iron Head or Extremespeed. Skarmory walls physical variants but is usually 2-hit-KO'd by mixed and special variants. Gliscor might be able to wall it but can't really do anything to it in return, since it isn't weak to EQ. I can go on and on.

Heatran, SDef Jellicent, and Rotom-H are definitely some of the best counters to Genesect. There are a plethora of checks however. You seriously need to read my post about Counters and Checks, because this completely proves you didn't read it properly. Look for the thing I said about Terrakion.

1. You can't say that what I said is objectively false, because everything i said that wasn't subjective is true.

2. Your response further proves my point.

3. I have. You saying nope doesn't change anything.

4. That post declines to note that unpredictability is actually a strength, because you can't fight something when you don't know anything about it.

5. Heatran is easily countered, Jellicent will have a hard time killing off Genesect if you go tanky, and when is the last time you saw Rotom-H outside of UU? You shouldn't need to carry something specifically to counter a specific mon; that's why we ban things. Rayquaza dies to anything that hits it with an Ice Beam; we should unban it, right?

I'll try to be polite if you offer the same courtesy to me.

[Lord Emvee]

1. You can't say that what I said is objectively false, because everything i said that wasn't subjective is true.

2. Your response further proves my point.

3. I have. You saying nope doesn't change anything.

4. That post declines to note that unpredictability is actually a strength, because you can't fight something when you don't know anything about it.

5. Heatran is easily countered, Jellicent will have a hard time killing off Genesect if you go tanky, and when is the last time you saw Rotom-H outside of UU? You shouldn't need to carry something specifically to counter a specific mon; that's why we ban things. Rayquaza dies to anything that hits it with an Ice Beam; we should unban it, right?

I'll try to be polite if you offer the same courtesy to me.

I could respond to that and you'd need a Burn Heal, but I respect Lunari's post before yours, and I wont say anything. I don't wanna start anything with you so with that being said, don't try and start shit with me. I was fine to begin with; you're the one calling me a prick. If you want, get on the Reborn server and I'll teach you a lesson in a Pokemon battle. I think that's the most mature way to handle it instead of trying to get back at me by calling me a prick and making posts that don't make sense. Oh, and you should probably read my posts...

Edited March 5, 2014 by So Heroic

[Chevaleresse]

I could respond to that and you'd need a Burn Heal, but I respect Lunari's post before yours, and I wont say anything. I don't wanna start anything with you so with that being said, don't try and start shit with me. I was fine to begin with; you're the one calling me a prick. If you want, get on the Reborn server and I'll teach you a lesson in a Pokemon battle. I think that's the most mature way to handle it instead of trying to get back at me by calling me a prick and making posts that don't make sense. Oh, and you should probably read my posts...

AGAIN. I read your posts. Claiming I didn't doesn't help your position. I called you a prick because you're being incredibly derisive toward everyone who attempts to offer a counter-argument.

Now, to get back to tier talk, I believe Blaziken should be banned to Ubers along with his Mega. They're both powerful for the same reasons, and in about the same degrees.

[Lord Emvee]

AGAIN. I read your posts. Claiming I didn't doesn't help your position. I called you a prick because you're being incredibly derisive toward everyone who attempts to offer a counter-argument.

Now, to get back to tier talk, I believe Blaziken should be banned to Ubers along with his Mega. They're both powerful for the same reasons, and in about the same degrees.

It kinda does, because I already addressed the points about Genesect that you're arguing about in my earlier posts. I'm sure it is more acceptable to assume you didn't read it than for you to call me a prick, in terms of auth standards I believe. And all I'm doing is providing a counter argument to people who counter argue my arguments. This is a debate after all, are you sure you're in the right thread? I agree about Blaziken though!