[OOC/Sign-ups] Surge Story

[Flux]

Just had to point out that this thread now has 1000 posts!

[Chim]

So, who want's to start the discussion on Dark Types? or should I go ahead and do it?

I don't know what to change about Dark Types. Everything makes more or less sense to me now that Jory explained the reason behind Fighting being SE againt Dark.

[Chevaleresse]

as far as why bugs aren't always good against grass

[Jory]

as far as why bugs aren't always good against grass

This is my point. Grass/Poison types should probably take NFE or neutral damage from Bugs, as when they are bitten they would poison the attacker. I broadly assume Grass/Poison to have Grass body structure with Poison interior.

Then again, we're drawing up broad rules. Oftentimes I think we'll need to decide on a case-by-case basis as a group using what we decide now as a guideline.

[Sutoratosu]

^Look, that is literally the one of the ONLY TWO species of GAO in which that's the case. While yes, there are some plant species, like the venus flytrap and the pitcher plant, which feed on insects, the vast majority do not and are in fact themselves fed upon by Insects. I'm not going to change the effectiveness just because of one or two special cases in which the tables are turned regarding the predator prey relationship between Plants and Bugs.

And why is it that just now anyone's saying something about it? And this isn't even concerning the change I made, I gave Bug a RESISTANCE to grass because I noticed it was missing it and that it could be justified. Again,

Real quick:

why just now is this talk coming out, I asked if anyone had any final says on the Bug typing before I finalized the changes we ALL had put in. Why was nothing said back then when the topic was still Bugs?

Don't answer that, because we need to get moving on. the time for bugs has passed, I gave the opportunity to further discuss the changes made.

I'll just change it to GSE and be done with it since we honestly need to just move on from it.

Moving on to Dark Types now (and I don't want to hear anything else about Insects after this, Spark Alpha...)

I don't know what to change about Dark Types. Everything makes more or less sense to me now that Jory explained the reason behind Fighting being SE againt Dark.

That's the thing though, we can't really do a pure fantasy type justification for Dark like it is in the original.

Here's what I have for Dark so far so that we can get started:

Dark

Alright, from what I can see, Dark types have a relatively consistent Stat distribution overall. However, we can not go with the whole "Darkness= Evil/ Fighting= Righteous" type of Justification in this story because I refuse to allow such a fantasy based ideal here. Instead, Dark Types will be explained in the most literal sense: They are Aphotic, IE, by the diction of it: (From Merrium-Webster)

1a : devoid or partially devoid of light : not receiving, reflecting, transmitting, or radiating light <a dark room>

3b : dismal, gloomy <had a dark view of the future>

4d : relating to grim or depressing circumstances <darkhumor>

Ergo, here's how their gonna work: Dark Types will function on two principles, the absence of light, and the Emotions of Depression, whereas Ghost will function off of the emotions of fear, and to lesser extent, Anger/Malice, and Psychic Types will function off of mental clarity and concentration. This will create the Psychological Triumpharant: Dark types for depression and grief, Psychic types for Logic/ Reasoning and Clarity, and Ghost Types for Fear and Anger (We'll get to it all when we get to it). Now then, Dakr types will have a direct opposite, and it won't be Psychics, but instead Fairies, whom will be changed to be Photic: IE. representing the presence of significant visible light, but Fairies will not operate on emotion (Again, we;ll get to it...)

now, can everyone agree to this Justification, in which Dark Types operate off of the absence of visible light waves, and the psychological principles of the emotions of Depression and Grief? if we can, then I'll go on to drafting the new match ups.

[Jory]

I like this idea, although I think the idea of the type being "aphotic" should apply mostly to Dark-type attacks. The organisms themselves might be giving off some kind of null energy field that prevents light from acting as it normally does.

[Sutoratosu]

That's what I meant by it, Corporal.

The Attacks themselves function by exploiting the absence of light (EX. Night Slash, self explanatory why), or by inducing the emotions of Depression and Grief in the minds of the Target.

Dark Types overall will be more suited to stealth (Because of the whole "Cover of darkness" thing) more than anything else, while Psychic types will be suited to Intel Gathering and Interrogation (Which I guess technically counts as intel...), and Ghost Types will be best suited for pure Psychological warfare by exploiting Fear and Paranoia

[Chevaleresse]

Sounds good.

I basically see Dark as disrupting energy fields with a sort of negative energy, as someone else said once. Psychic-types would have a hard time doing much of anything while affected by said disruption, and ghosts are basically made of energy, so...

[Sutoratosu]

So basically their bodies emit energy fields which bend/ distort the waves of the light spectrum and other certain energies?

[Supernovae]

That's an interesting way to look at it. I always thought of dark types as more of tricksters, with nothing really biologically different about them, instead it was their fighting style that made them different.

[Chevaleresse]

So basically their bodies emit energy fields which bend/ distort the waves of the light spectrum and other certain energies?

Basically. This is also how you can bite a rock and have it be basically the same as biting a bear.

[Sutoratosu]

Alright, well here's the match ups I've hashed out, soldiers.

But first notes on the Triumpharant:

Psychic- Logic, Reasoning, Concentration/ Mental Clarity

Bio Overview:

Organisms of this type are marked by their highly increased Brain Capacity compared to even humans, as well as their Psychokinetic capabilities stemming from this brain capacity. The Majority of them are capable of things previously thought impossible such as teleportation, as well as Telepathy with other sentient beings. Many of them are as smart, if not even smarter, than the greatest Human Geniuses ever known by leaps and bounds.Thier abilities require a hefty amount of concentration and focus in order to pull off effectively. No secret is ever truly safe around them.

Dark- Literal Darkness, Depression, Grief

Bio Overview:

Organisms of this type generate strange Electromagnetic Fields around their bodies capable of distorting, bending, and even breaking the waves of the visible light spectrum. These fields are also capable of disrupting numerous other energies for some reason yet to be deduced by Bexly Researchers, resulting in some...very odd things, such as being able to munch down on a rock as if it were flesh...They also seem to rely just as much on inducing the emotions of Apathy, Depression, and Grief in the minds of their targets, and seem able to even harness these Psychological manifestations as energy...

Ghost- Fear, Malice, Anger

Bio Overview:

These Organisms still pose a large difficulty to scientist trying to find an explanation for their existence, but the best theory that has come about is that they are Spectors in a way, collective conscious minds that lack a body which is incapable of manifesting itself in a physical, tangible state, and therefore must combine together and opt to elect a new, non physical state in which to exist. They are capable of feats long associated to Apparitions and ghost and other entities of the paranormal, and seem to rely on inducing feelings of Fear, Anger, and Malice in the minds of the targets of their attacks and then exploiting those emotions, even being able to harness these emotions as energy...

If there's any type that has thrown the eons old debate about religion into an absolute fire storm, it's these right here...

((PS. if you're going to try to argue with me about this here principle, you better be prepared to offer up a better one in it's place.))

Onto the Match ups now.

When Attacking Dark:

Always Super Effective:

-Fairy (Because of their Photic Nature, the energy fields they generate will be able to counteract those of dark types, and also vica-versa. in a fight between the two, it'll be a complete powder keg.)

-Ghost (the Triumphant types Will function in a triangular match up like Fire, Grass, and water does, using the Principle that Logic & Reason trumps Fear & Anger, Depression & Grief trumps logic, and that All Grief Eventually fades into some degree of Anger)

Generally Super Effective:

-Fire (Fire always Generates a considerable amount of light, but it is going to need to be a high amount in order to overcome the aphotic field Dark Types Generate. IE, gonna need a lot of it.)

-Electric (Same exact reasoning as Fire)

Generally Not Effective:

-Fighting (You can't easily hit what you can not first see/ locate with your eyes, now can you? but their will be some cases, like with a Lucario's aura sphere, in which this will be a very different story.)

Always Not Effective:

-Psychic (the Triumphant types Will function in a triangular match up like Fire, Grass, and water does, using the Principle that Logic & Reason trumps Fear & Anger, Depression & Grief trumps logic, and that All Grief Eventually fades into some degree of Anger)

Immunities:

-None

When Dark Attacks:

Always Super Effective:

-Fairy (For reason stated above, they'll collide and both be highly destructive to the other.)

-Psychic (Because of the already above stated principle of the Psychological Triumphant.)

Generally Super Effective:

-Fighting (Again, fighting in the dark greatly hinders your combat ability if you can't find a way to see clearly, you're gonna have a very hard time hitting anything in pitch blackness, but again, there will be certain cases in which this will be overcome, like with an aura sphere.)

Generally Not Effective:

-Fire (Reason stated above)

-Electric (Reason stated above)

Always Not Effective:

-Ghost (Psychological Triumphant member)

so what do you all think?

[Ragnar]

Seems fair, but i think the ghost vs dark thing won't work, cause i think that dark types are full of trickery and can even cheat death. just look at most of the dark types moves, most of them base on deception and methods of torments(even souls).(yes this is my stupid opinion)

and since we're on the topic on bending the rules of the pokemon a bit and putting logic to it, here's my question...why does poison type have weakness to psychic types? i know its use to balance the game but it doesn't make any sense(for me).

Edited November 27, 2014 by typhlosionrulez

[Sutoratosu]

Seems fair, but it think the ghost vs dark thing won't work, cause i think that dark types are full of trickery and can even cheat death. just look at most of the dark types moves, most of them base on deception and methods of torments(even souls).(yes this is my stupid opinion)

and since we're on the topic on bending the rules of the pokemon a bit and putting logic to it, here's my question...why does poison type have weakness to psychic types? i know its use to balance the game but it doesn't make any sense(for me).

Again, we can't go using any of that fantasy crap that pokemon does, so Everything regarding those aspects of Psychic, Dark, and Ghost types have been changed to work on Psychological basis (except for ghost, which uses both that and the paranormal sciences). This is how they came out as a result.

As for the second part I already fully intended to change the relationship between Psychic and Poison types.

[Azeria]

Just wondering how the aspects of the dragon type would work.In general most dragons have tough scales and ussually are either A:able to fly or live in the ocean.Most of them can use fire moves to go with ancient myths of fire breathing dragons but then there are the Flygon,Garchomp lines etc.

[Sutoratosu]

Have I not said we will get to each type when we get to them? I'll come up with the justifications for their biological existance when we get to their turn in this Type Matchup rewrite.

I already have the basis of how I see them possibly functioning, but right now we are on Dark types, soldier, not Dragons. Dragons don't have any special relation ships to Dark Types, unlike Psychic or ghost types, ergo they must simply wait their own turn.

[Chevaleresse]

I still think that Dark beats Ghost. If we're saying Dark means manipulation of energy fields, and Ghosts literally are sentient energy fields, then logically Dark would be SE on Ghost. Trying to create a triangle artificially sounds like what we're trying to avoid.

[K_H]

I'm with Murdoc on this one. If we're going with the "Grass-Fire-Water Triangle" Analogy, Ghost is more like Electric (I.E, close to the Triangle, but just barely outside of it.)

[Sutoratosu]

fine then, Dark trumps both Ghost and Psychic....

When Attacking Dark:

Always Super Effective:

-Fairy (Because of their Photic Nature, the energy fields they generate will be able to counteract those of dark types, and also vica-versa. in a fight between the two, it'll be a complete powder keg.)

-Ghost

Generally Super Effective:

-Fire (Fire always Generates a considerable amount of light, but it is going to need to be a high amount in order to overcome the aphotic field Dark Types Generate. IE, gonna need a lot of it.)

-Electric (Same exact reasoning as Fire)

Generally Not Effective:

-Fighting (You can't easily hit what you can not first see/ locate with your eyes, now can you? but their will be some cases, like with a Lucario's aura sphere, in which this will be a very different story.)

Always Not Effective:

-Psychic

-Ghost

Immunities:

-None

When Dark Attacks:

Always Super Effective:

-Fairy (For reason stated above, they'll collide and both be highly destructive to the other.)

-Psychic

-Ghost

Generally Super Effective:

-Fighting (Again, fighting in the dark greatly hinders your combat ability if you can't find a way to see clearly, you're gonna have a very hard time hitting anything in pitch blackness, but again, there will be certain cases in which this will be overcome, like with an aura sphere.)

Generally Not Effective:

-Fire (Reason stated above)

-Electric (Reason stated above)

Always Not Effective:

-None

There.

[K_H]

Surge, I'd have Dark be only GSE against Ghost, because there are instances in which Ghost-Types have a Corporeal Form, such as in the Golett/Golurk Line. The Pokedex literally states that those two are what we call Golems IRL.

Edited November 27, 2014 by K_H

[Sutoratosu]

Surge, I'd have Dark be only GSE, because there are instances in which Ghost-Types have a Corporeal Form, such as in the Golett/Golurk Line. The Pokedex literally states that those two are what we call Golems IRL.

Golurks line still functions primarily off of an energy field, as it pretty much nothing more than a sentient energy field that animates a bunch of clay. So it would still be ASE because the Aphotic field could easily completely by pass the Animated Matter and disrupt the inner workings of the Ghost typed being in question

[K_H]

Thanks for clarifying that detail. I see your point, and I agree with your choice. Oh, and i know how Psychic should be SE against Poison, but i'll come back to that once we reach the point where it will be On-Topic.

Edited November 27, 2014 by K_H

[Sutoratosu]

Well, if no one has anything to add to dark types/ the Psychological Triumpharant, then I'll go dig around the net to find a certain discovery channel theoretical documentary since Dragon Types are up next...

[Chevaleresse]

I actually had a few thoughts on Dragons. Being reptiles, most of the type chart makes sense already. Reptiles are found in every biome and climate, from the hottest desert to the rainforest to the ocean. The only places you don't really run into them are areas where it is inhospitably cold. As for why Electric types don't hit them effectively, I don't know. Perhaps their natural ability to absorb energy extends to electricity? Fairy being immune is just nonsensical, but I could see a resistance being justified somehow. On the offensive side, the energy a Fairy-type emits could just be incompatible with their biological systems, causing a sort of "energy poisoning."

[Sutoratosu]

Well... how does everyone feel about the whole "Fairy trump dragon" deal pokemon currently has going?

as we have it set up, Dark is Aphotic while Fairies are Photic, and while the whole "Energy field poisoning" Murdoc suggested could plausibly be justified in some way, we would also have to give Dark Types the advantage over Dragon since they both biologically generate special electromagnetic fields which effect waves of the Light Spectrum.

Oh, and also... found a Biologic explaination as to how Dragon's could've possibly breathed fire (Which we can probably use for all fire types now...)

How?

In most stories, dragons are omnivores, meaning they have two different types of teeth: sharp teeth for tearing meat and flat teeth for grinding plants. Some writers have hypothesized that dragons might even use their flat teeth to grind rocks.

Grinding rocks doesn’t seem to be an action that would provide any nutritious value whatsoever, but it’s not unheard of in animals. For example, birds sometimes swallow rocks to aid in their digestion. Birds actually have two chambers in their stomach. The first chamber, the proventriculus, acts the same way human stomachs do, secreting acid for breaking down food. But, since snacks like seeds and nuts are so hard, birds swallow grit and small rocks, which accumulate in the second chamber, called the gizzard. The gizzard grinds the swallowed rocks against the seeds, smashing the hard foods and aiding in digestion (“Bird Digestion”).

Dragons are known to feed on livestock (and occasionally humans…), so sometimes they might swallow such prey without bothering to completely tear the meat apart from the bones. The hard bones could prove to be an issue for digestion, giving dragons a need to grind up and swallow rocks to aid in the digestion process. However, unlike in birds, this process could actually also be responsible for providing dragons with their fire-breathing powers.

If we assume that dragons follow the same digestive process as birds, then dragons will have leftover food and acid remaining in its two stomachs after the digestive processes have been completed. Bacteria in the intestines feed on these undigested food particles and release intestinal gases composed of hydrogen and methane through the process of fermentation (Mayo Clinic staff).

In humans, these intestinal gases would be excreted through burping, bloating, and flatulence, but it can be speculated that dragons could actually store the hydrogen and methane in its body in storage sacs and call upon it for later use during fire production. I think a fire-breathing dragon is much more terrifying than a farting lizard.

Now for the flint – when a dragon grinds up large rocks, metal-rich rocks would leave residue on its teeth. Then, as the dragon releases its hydrogen- and methane-rich gas, the gas would mix with the oxygen in the air and be ignited against the metallic residue (Dove). As a result, this combination of rock-grinding and intestinal gas storage creates the perfect conditions for fire-breathing.

And there we have it! Fire is spewed from the dragon’s mouth.