[OOC/Sign-ups] Surge Story

[K_H]

Hey, I'm up for Surge 2.0. However, before we even consider starting over, we need to finish up the Type Tables. I'll link you guys to it here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yXF5Zy6BQvP1Al2KY_xi4mwNFev-8V1c4NU9kjY257g/edit#gid=0

[Ragnar]

But but Sid's Luxio is one level up away from evolving, eh screw it, i'm starting a new.. dibs on Bulbasaur

[Flux]

In the case of Surge 2.0, could we possibly move away from the level system? I know I've been nagging about this since the beginning, but I think we've all seen that it got difficult to keep track of at times, and there was a lot of guesswork involved. If we do keep it, I at least think it needs to be tweaked for better organization. Just a thought.

[Sutoratosu]

Hey, I'm up for Surge 2.0. However, before we even consider starting over, we need to finish up the Type Tables. I'll link you guys to it here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yXF5Zy6BQvP1Al2KY_xi4mwNFev-8V1c4NU9kjY257g/edit#gid=0

Like I said, I'll finish the type on my own... since it kinda flopped as a community effort and only two people really worked on it after a certain someone went missing.

As for the leveling system and or merit of it's abolishment, that is something I will also be addressing in the rewrite- as well as why the hell a GAOW would even take orders from a human in the first place without tearing out their belly guts and chowing down on them instead...

Also, I have already renamed every type to something either with an appropiate Greek/ Latin Root or a more official sounding word.

EX: Fire is Pyro, Water=Hydro, Grass=Chloro...etc.

Hmmm... one alternative to the level system could be one dependent on the base stat total of the species, the age of the individual, and the amount of training it has (could be measured in tiers or such, like the battle intensity was)

[K_H]

My thoughts exactly, sir.

Also, the RP doesn't seem realistic enough. I reccommend we take Technological Advances into account when re-doing the RP. There's a Video out there made by Michio Kaku in which he says that we'll have the Technological Sophistication to be able to make Plasma Swords before the next fifty years pass, using slightly upgraded versions of Technology we already have. That could be one reason why the GAOs respect us: If they get too close when on hostile terms, they'd suffer quite a bit of damage from a Sword that is as hot as a Bolt of Lightning (Which come in at an average of about five times hotter than the surface of Sol [For you laymen out there, that's another name for the Sun]). Additionally, there's also the fact that our cities could be protected from GAO Attacks by means of Area Denial delivered by powerful Lasers. Sure, it might not be very good against Photics, but we could then go in with something that is excellent against them. (IDK what, but I think Mirrors would be likely candidates.)

Here's the Video:

https://youtu.be/1lr5OUjFDkg

Edited April 14, 2015 by Trainer Red

[Jory]

I'd be down for a re-write. Or this. I like this

[Sutoratosu]

My thoughts exactly, sir.

Also, the RP doesn't seem realistic enough. I reccommend we take Technological Advances into account when re-doing the RP. There's a Video out there made by Michio Kaku in which he says that we'll have the Technological Sophistication to be able to make Plasma Swords before the next fifty years pass, using slightly upgraded versions of Technology we already have. That could be one reason why the GAOs respect us: If they get too close when on hostile terms, they'd suffer quite a bit of damage from a Sword that is as hot as a Bolt of Lightning (Which come in at an average of about five times hotter than the surface of Sol [For you laymen out there, that's another name for the Sun]). Additionally, there's also the fact that our cities could be protected from GAO Attacks by means of Area Denial delivered by powerful Lasers. Sure, it might not be very good against Photics, but we could then go in with something that is excellent against them. (IDK what, but I think Mirrors would be likely candidates.)

Here's the Video:

https://youtu.be/1lr5OUjFDkg

I don;t know about plasma swords... pushes things a bit too far.

but the fact of more advanced technology being present was already a given factor, so...

plus, a plasma sword... versus anything of ESP nomenclature (Psychic types)? Yeah, that's some big incentive for them to listen, just take it right out of ya hands with their minds, maybe cut ya in two with ya own weapon...

That's really not a good deterrent. I've already got something in mind for why they listen/ are willing to cooperate to a degree.

[K_H]

You have a good point, sir... Except that your logic could be applied to any weapon.

[Sutoratosu]

I know. hence why the incentive to listen will not be because of any weapon the human race may posses.

It all comebacks to an outbreak... and those few who survived...

[Sutoratosu]

I'm honestly considering abolishing the whole Type Matchup system to be honest... have things be completely dependent on tactics and strategy rather than some flawed Rock-Paper-Scissors system... though this in and of itself could cause issues for those match ups that actually make sense (EX: Ghost being scrambled by Photic/ Aphotic attacks, like we determined.

To be honest, it would be a shit ton of work to go through and reorganize all the rest of them and think up of every situation, and since our resident Physics expert ditched us a few months ago...(And I'm too lazy to find another physicist willing to help). it would probably be TOO much damn work and cause the necessary development time to drag on longer than needed.

Plus it would honestly avoid a lot of headaches that I know would occur with new players... just think about the massive learning curve of having to get used to all 18 types being completely redrafted with all new and different strengths and weakness. I mean, the idea seemed good at first, but in hindsight... honestly, it is something that would work better in a Fangame than it would in an RP setting... and a big learning curve will probably scare new folks away

so yeah, might abolish the entire match-up along with levels. STAB makes sense though do to biological factors. so... that will likely stay. But this would mean that victory depends even more on how clever you are and how skilled rather than how well you memorized a bunch of matchings... IE, all types would be more or less on equal footing, no one would be inherently more or less powerful than anyone else just because of what type they have on their teams.

How I would mitigate potential issues is via this- I am in the process on writing up basic Biological Profiles for everyone of the 18 types. They all have different uses and different strengths and adaptations because of their biology, however, the way it will be set up... As I said, no type will be inherently stronger when facing another one.

[K_H]

I'd have to disagree with you there, sir. Type Advantages are one of the Core Mechanics of the Pokemon Universe, if not the central Mechanical Pillar for the whole thing. Without them, a lot of Strategic Depth is removed, because it would simply become a matter of Strength and Speed in order to be victorious. Besides, You remember that stunt we pulled off against Ditto-Articuno in the Siege of Ft. Bexly, right? That was only possible through Type Advantages. Take away Type Advantages, and all you get is a bunch of Energy-Wielding creatures as Weapons used by Humans as a way to see whose is strongest, instead of who can use theirs in the most effective way.

[Sutoratosu]

I'd have to disagree with you there, sir. Type Advantages are one of the Core Mechanics of the Pokemon Universe, if not the central Mechanical Pillar for the whole thing. Without them, a lot of Strategic Depth is removed, because it would simply become a matter of Strength and Speed in order to be victorious. Besides, You remember that stunt we pulled off against Ditto-Articuno in the Siege of Ft. Bexly, right? That was only possible through Type Advantages. Take away Type Advantages, and all you get is a bunch of Energy-Wielding creatures as Weapons used by Humans as a way to see whose is strongest, instead of who can use theirs in the most effective way.

Like I said. It's not gamefreak's pokemon anymore. like the mission statement of this RP proclaims, we shall not hold ourselves hostage to their ways- we will follow our own.

That is the surge story way. And...

Take away Type Advantages, and all you get is a bunch of Energy-Wielding creatures as Weapons used by Humans as a way to see whose is strongest, instead of who can use theirs in the most effective way.

Is that technically not the more realistic route to take? And like I said... we ain't sugar coating anything- the concept of thinking of GAOWs as being nothing more than weapons will be a theme that plays heavily throughout whatever the plot is.

Oh, and by the way. @everyone, this is up to a vote, encase I did not indicate it clear in the announcement of the potential consideration. Silence is not an option, if you're a player, you are required to cast a say in this matter.

And for those who vote neigh- post suggestions on how to fix the fiasco that is the type matchup system then. Because I will not have some steep ass learning curve scaring away new people who are potentially interested, and I at the same time refuse to abide by the match-up system officially utilized by Gamefreak. I've been tackling this issue since near the beginning of things picking up, and I'm out of it- can't go on any longer like this.

Ya'll gonna have to start getting involved in this a bit more. Afterall, you're like... my beta testers crew from this, you've participated through the first incarnation of it, seen how the developer has tried to make it work, been able to witness all the benefits and the flaws of the systems in place, so it would only make sense if you had some hand in helping to lay the ground work for the second coming.

((Yes, this is basically me asking for technical feedback and suggestions on the systems and mechanics used in the RP...))

EDIT: and by the way, these are the new names of the types. Their pretty straight forward, so confusion should be no issue here:

Fire- Pyro

Water- Hydro

Grass- Chloro

Electric- Electro

Dragon- Draconic

Ghost- Spectral

Dark- Umbral/ Umbra

Fighting- Spartan (Think about it for a few moments, it does make a degree of sense)

Fairy- Photic/ Photo

Poison- Venom/ Caustic

Ground- Terra

Rock- Petra

Steel- Ferric

Flying- Avian/ Aero

Bug- Formic/ Insectoid

Psychic- Psionic/ ESP

Ice- Cryo

Normal-.... Mundane

EDIT 2: Hold on... I might be on to something here...cores... no, not armor cores, but... yes, I'm on to something here...

Perhaps we can retain some type of match up system yet... I need to go see where this leads me.

EDIT 3: oh yes... there is something with this. I may have to add a little something to the human biology, but...

EDIT 4: Motha fucka... damn, well If I can justify it like that... it would be easy, eliminate the imposed learning curve and... son of bitch!

All this time, wasted. They don got me good too, here I was, thinking I had to redo the type system, when in reality, all I had to fucking do, was figure out a scientifically believable way to justify it... all that time and sweat and tears, wasted by a simple realization

*Flips the table over, sending papers flying everywhere and finally understanding how Ray probably felt in that one cut-away scene he wrote...*

Yeah... I'll uh... go work this out and get back to you guys...

stupid stupid stupid... how could i have been so stupid for so long...

[Ragnar]

Simplicity is always the best. don't be too logical about it.. sure you can add some sciency gritty post-apocalyptic stuff to the story, but leave the type advantage/weakness in its natural order.. some things are better untouched. it's still pokemon after all.

[Chim]

I actually like the idea about no type advantages.

And I wouldn't change too much either. The main reason I never said anything about the new match-ups was because I didn't understand half the things Super said. If you're still going with that virus you can always say that there are still unnatural things about it that scientist don't understand. That way GF-system can be used.

[Sutoratosu]

yeah... guess you all are right. I came up with something though that makes me want to do a massive face palm. Finally figured out a way to justify everything, from types, to how moves are even able to be used, to evolution, to why the hell GAOWs (Technically they can't really be accurately called that anymore though...) listen to a human. Literally just blame it all on meta-science, like in fantasy how people blame shit on "It's magic."

Anyways, we are going to be using the "Core System" for the re-write in order to explain and justify pretty much everything. I'll explain more later, but heres a list of the changes so far that are noted to be made:

-Get rid of the Level system and replace it with an age and "Core Strength" system (Again, I will explain what the hell this is later when I have more time, it's lunch period at my school and I've only got like 40 minutes...)

-Implement and develop the core system

-The basic plot is in the works of being created, though at the current moment it will most likely be some type of civil war in america, with japan coming into the story later on

-The time of the story has been pushed back to around 2100, with Pokemans having originated around the time period of the 2060's or so

-I am going to admit defeat on the war of types... we'll keep using Gamefreak's system because now I can actually justify it thanks to the Core idea

[K_H]

It seems you have had an Epiphany, much like Enyo did.

Besides, Faust, our work is not in vain. these Custom Typings can be used in Reroll RPs, if we ever decide to do that at any point.

[Sutoratosu]

Alright, so I got an announcement

Legendaries will be making cameos as bosses in Surge Story 2.0. However, they will be different than they were in the current system- I'm just going to have legendaries be species of mon that are far more powerful than usual ones, but that there are multiples of- they are just extremely rare/ crafty and hard to track compared to others, as well as far harder to tame, hence, almost no one but certain characters will have one under their belt. They will also be a bit smaller than say... Articuno was, just as a general rule of thumb because this version requires me to consider how the environment would be able to sustain giant beast for long periods without giving out from depletion of resources... so yeah.

Now, this way would make it not so outlandish for people eventually having opportunities to aquire legendaries as it would in the current form where their... basically like all fifty freaking feet tall and weapons created by governments and given out only to generals and top soldiers... and since Surge is only a lt, and none of the pcs would even be on the team if they were beyond his own rank... which they realistically would need to be in order to even be considered...

So yeah, that;s the deal with legends.

[Sutoratosu]

Now, I have also gone and replaced the Leveling system with something different.

In 2.0, there will be no levels at all. Instead, a mon's strength will generally be judged via the Core Strength Scale (CSS), which will give a general placement for their power and abilities. In addition, due to certain... additions I will be making to human biology, humans will be able to gauge a mons placement on the CSS without the need of a device. In addition, to stop power playing before it can even be an issue since we'll be opening this up to the public again, and force a bit more development,

Here is the scale, working in three tiers

Low

-Low on the CSS is more or less the equivalent of a mon being between levels 1-33. Those who place in this category can use moves up to a base power of 85.

Moderate

-Medium on the scale, equivalent to levels 34-66. Those who place here can use moves up 140 in base power.

High

-Top tier on the scale of power,equivalent to levels 67-100. those who place in this can use moves surpassing 140 base power.

So yeah, there you have it, thats how we're gonna do it, And I've got sub classes for each tier as well that increase by ten levels each for further organization. Since there was confusion about levels here though- I will be the one controlling all things regarding levels in 2.0; the players themselves will have nothing to do with monitoring it.

In addition, TMs will exist in the world of 2.0, but not in the form of disks or CDs, oh no... they will be small, flashdrive-like device in which are contained the energy of harvested cores from... harvested mons. upon use, These bits of energy contained in them will allow a mon to learn any single move regardless of type or whether or not it is illegal or not for it to learn it in the core games. However, after use, the energy contained is gonzo and you're left with the empty drive (Though they can be reloaded.) I will explain more later on when I get around to talking about Cores, but basically this means- Flying fucking magickarps. You might see them at some point. Charizards firing ice beams? it can actually happen. Cause see, the Core System trumps biology here- it dictates biology, ergo...

But here's the catch- I control who finds Move Drives (Cuase that's what they're gonna be called), and what they contain, saying you found one or saying what it contains without prior authorization from myself either IC or OOC will result in...very nasty consequences, likely the death of a mon... or the player themselves, if it keeps being an issue afterwards.

In Addition- The move system itself. We will be retaining the trait that there are no "Known Movesets" here, as we have in this story. However, this one is going to be under stricter controls by myself in that:

Mons will be more inclined to use moves of their matching types (IE, STAB moves) then they will of moves of other types- meaning, that while yes, there will be no movesets, your mon should be relying more readily and heavily on moves of it's matching type than it should on moves not of it's type. However, if it can be justified that a mon would know a certain move, like a charizard knowing slash (Which it even gets as a level up move in the games,) then you can use that so long as the justification is solid. I will be watching though.

So to summarize the last part- In surge story 2.0 there will be no level learn sets because their will be no levels. Instead, mons will be mainly using any move of their type (So long as it falls into the base power restriction mentioned above with the CSS), but they can also use moves in which there is sound justification for them to be able to naturally preform, like a Blastoise using Rapid Spin or a Charaizard using Slash.

Illegal moves, IE, moves that make no sense for a mon to know how to do naturally, can only be used if a mon has had it's core embued with the information of that move via a Move Drive being used on it.

Now- is ANYONE lost on any of this so far? (You really shouldn't be though... this is as simple as I can possibly make it and still have things actually be functional)

EDIT: Also, we will very heavily be departing from the games with this reboot. The Surge you all will be commanded by will be a man known literally only as "Surge" no surname, no first name or middle name, just the word "Surge", and chances are he will be the close ancestor of the notable "Lt. Surge" (Probably by 1 or 2 generations)

Eh... think of it... like the belmonts from castlevania, yeah, that's it.

[Flux]

This whole thing actually sounds really cool. Well done, I must say. You've got me hyped.

[Yash]

I've read parts of it and it seems really interesting.. I'd like joining in for the reboot..

[Sutoratosu]

Oh yeah, and I forgot to tell ya'll- There will be no species clause in Surge Story 2.0

But since I'll be controlling alot of the encounters early on in the story as well as always controlling what lives in certain areas throughout the plot, this shouldn't result in an issue of everyone and everyones mothers having teams full of psuedo legendaries.

Also, teams will not be limited at Six pokemon... at least not for major enemies. I don't know if I'm going to let Players go beyond six though... though maybe I should, considering the major bosses will all have mons probably a great deal stronger than you (EX, you fighting Upper-Moderate (like level 60) strength commanders when your entire teams are still Low Strength)... though, your three COs, of which the highest ranking and de facto leader of the squad will be "Surge" will all have mons about equal to that...and Surge will have something in the Upper High Strength scale level, so...

I don't know, anyway, just stopping in to tell you guys about the species clause thing and how there won't be one.

[Flux]

Sadness... But ok.

[Sutoratosu]

Oh yeah, and Egg Groups! oh glorious egg groups... yeah, no, there aren't gonna be any here- a mon will simply reproduce solely with others of it's kind, like how a true 'species' functions in actual biology.

Also- Egg Moves. they don't matter here because of how I have the move and combat system set up for 2.0, as I've already explained a bit

[K_H]

Um, Faust? There's such a thing as Interbreeding, ya know... If the Species are Compatible (I.E., have similar enough Genetic Codes (A.K.A. are in the same Genus)) then they are able to produce viable offspring, but don't necessarily do so. It's used quite a lot in Breeding Programs to produce Mules (Horse Mother, Donkey Father, and incapable of reproducing), Hinnies (Donkey Mother, Horse Father, and capable of reproducing), and also adding in desireable traits in the more Wolf-like dogs. In fact, Humans hybridized Wolves and Dogs even in Prehistoric times! However, Interbreeding is also the source of much frustration for those that want to preserve the Critically Endangered Species known as the Red Wolf, because of the fact that it's able to breed viable offspring with Coyotes, which the roughly 300 known individuals share their territory with. And that's just a few examples! There's plenty more that I can find if you want.

Edited April 20, 2015 by Trainer Red

[Sutoratosu]

No, this decision about egg groups is final. that was back when the biology of the world was like it once was, but now- that is no longer than case.

Mons breed within their own species and their own individual species period. Besides, in all honesty, the vast majority of mons are so different from one another between species that honestly the argument of interbreeding makes no logical sense anymore.

For example- a Charizard is in the dragon egg group. So is Seviper. in the official games, the two can breed because of that lone fact. But here? just going on logic, there are far too many differences biologically for a Charizard to ever produce stable/ living off spring with a Seviper, ergo, the two of them feel no urge to even try to reproduce.

Here, Pokemon are like cats and dogs, not different breeds of canines- they will stick to their own species and not even bother with each other in terms of attempts at mating.

EDIT: as a note going forward- I have decided to stop using so much heavy logic on this thing's development. The issue I had here in this RP was that I tried to hard to fight and rebel against Gamefreak's systems, when in reality, all I needed to do was take a step back and reorganize what they already had to my own ends and cropping whatever material I didn't need.

So basically, I'm just going to treat this like I'm writing a fantasy in a way, since... in all honesty, Science Fiction is really just fantasy a bit more grounded in reality and wearing a blanket over it's head. At the end of the day, they still both rely on the suspension of disbelief, and really aren't that different at their most basic core elements.

So yeah, I'm not really gonna classify this as any particular genre for the re-write. It will have heavy elements of Sci-Fi in it, but at the same time, these elements of Sci-fi could also be interpreted as elements of fantasy depending on the reader. in other words, I'm just going to create the systems of the world and leave it up to the player/ reader to decide for themselves what genre it should fall into.