Quattro Staravia Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 (edited) As many of us know, when a pokemon used in Reborn is considered OP, in the next Episode it is either: A. Moved to a later point in the game (Zubat, Ralts, Abra) B.Removed Entirely (Magikarp) Some may feel discouraged at the power wielded by their opponents, and the (Supposed) butter knives wielded by you (As in, they can't hurt, but they can poke real hard.) Therefore, inspired by http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/dont-use-that-use-this-xy-ou-edition.3499671/ from over at Smogon, I'd like to talk some strategy. First of all, mention a pokemon that fits the descriptions mentioned at the beginning of the thread (such as Zubat) Then, mention a possible alternative to use for that point (Such as Spearow). Explain your reasoning. For example, a post could look like this (Note: this is going on my most recent play through, where I just beat Julia, so this is merely untested theory) : CONFIRMED: Only used my Combusken against Florina's Cradilly and Ferroseed. Can't use Golbat during the 2nd Fern/Florinia battle? Use Spearow! Reason: Spearow is a very good reason to grind a bidoof to level 15, and trade it for a Littleo. The reason being, is that it knows headbutt. You can get a Spearow by headbutting trees at Opal. Among the birds that one can get early in the game, Spearow/Fearow is the only purely physical one. Since Attack EVs are more prosperous than Special Attack EVs Early Game, Fearow could possibly be an early sweeper. If you want, you can quote the post and say your opinion, or add your own! Edited June 22, 2014 by Quattro Staravia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garchomp550 Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 Ralts got moved?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quattro Staravia Posted June 18, 2014 Author Share Posted June 18, 2014 Ralts got moved?! Yeah. A Gothita's at it's old spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheep Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 (edited) Not sure this is in the right section (maybe someone can move it to reborn city or team showcase?) but I'll give it a go regardless. Can't use Staraptor? Use Stoutland! Staraptor was a terror in the early game of previous episodes and it's no surprise it got removed. However, if what you're looking for is a dangerous normal type with intimidate, a sky high attack stat, good bulk and good speed, you should look into Stoutland. With 110 base attack, 85/90/90 bulk, and intimidate to boot, you'll quickly find that he's a Staraptor in all but the flying typing. His level up move pool is leagues better than the Starly lines was anyway with STAB take down as soon as you get him, work up and crunch available very quickly after, the 3 elemental fangs by move relearner, and even play rough if you keep him around for the late game. I wouldn't diagnose anyone to use him as a specific counter to any gym, but he's so good in general that it's well worth getting one. Can't use Crobat? Use Vespiquen! Vespiquen is an unbelievable pokemon for the early game. The only reason it's still here is probably because no-one will use it. For some reason. I don't really understand that though 'cause it's just so good. Combee's got some terrible stats and a weakness to the first gym so it won't be doing you any favors straight out the gate, but get a Combee with hustle and you'll be surprised at how much that bug bite'll hurt. It usually claimed at least one kill per match against Julia so it isn't useless. But the real perks come after evolution. At level 21 you can have a pokemon with a plethora of resistances and 70/102/102 bulk. At that point your other pokemon are still learning to walk, and Vespiquen will definitely take the lead. It's useful against the PULSE Tangrowths, it's useful against Fern, it's useful against Florinia (by useful I mean it will kill 5 of her 6 pokemon without dropping below half health), it's useful against the Chatot because it can live a chatter and reply (confusion permitting) with a power gem. Chatot doesn't like that. It's also useful against Corey, 'cause if you keep gust around then you can remove his field effect with it on turn one. That brings me to its movepool. We're talking bug bite, gust, slash, power gem, defend order, confuse ray, destiny bond, heal order, toxic and air slash all obtainable within the city. So you can do whatever the hell you want with it. Me? I like defend order, heal order, toxic, and air slash. Slowly toxic stalling your opponent to death while they literally can't hurt you is pretty cool. So yeah, Vespiquen is good. Like really good. Edited June 18, 2014 by Sheep93 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleted User Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 This thread needs to stop, it's only a matter of time before Ame makes the only usable pokemon Delibird and Dunsparce. Then she'll remove Dunsparce too cus OP. I hope you like presents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheep Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 Well if it raises Ame's awareness of all of the broken early game stuff then that's good too right? I personally don't want a game where stuff like Gyarados and Staraptor are the only pokemon you need. Diversity is the spice of life, and if reborn can force you to find alternatives that work then I'd see that as a win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 Moved. It could belong in "On the Hunt" but I think it's better suited for "Reborn City" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veterans Azeria Posted June 18, 2014 Veterans Share Posted June 18, 2014 Why Does Everybody here Give All The Love TO Pokemon like Crobat and Metagross i admit i overuse Crobat and Gegar but You people give no Love TO URSARING he's amazing helped me beat corey Supah easy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaunt Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 (edited) Ok let's try this.... Can't use Gyarados? You can only cry because nothing beats that beast but seriosly if you're willing to wait till the Ditto you can have an Azumarill (obtainable only by trading as of ep 12), that Pokemon is good (only because of Huge Power) and he learns 2 good STAB moves by level up (Aqua Tail and Play Rough) so it can be a (lackluster) substitute to Gyarados (to some extent). Edited June 18, 2014 by Gaunt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DashingStorm Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 Got one for y'all. Can't use Ralts? Use Gothita! Gothita is tremendously helpful once it fully evolves. Granted it has no Fairy-type/move, it does fairly good against Corey and even Shade and Aya. You'll have to deal with Gothitelle being significantly slower compared to Gardevoir. That being said, it gets one of the best Psychic moves, Psyshock, at level 25. That 95/110 base Def/SpDef doesn't lie either, it can take a nice hit. Consider it a more bulky version of Gardevoir, trading speed for Def. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gutten_tag Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 Ok let's try this.... Can't use Gyarados? You can only cry because nothing beats that beast but seriosly if you're willing to wait till the Ditto you can have an Azumarill (obtainable only by trading as of ep 12), that Pokemon is good (only because of Huge Power) and he learns 2 good STAB moves by level up (Aqua Tail and Play Rough) so it can be a (lackluster) substitute to Gyarados (to some extent). especially when you go with Aqua gang and get Buizel, you can breed Aqua Jet to Azumarill, and then you can kill everything weak to water without problem of speed anymore. No more Fire, Rock, Ground can stand in your way (except for that giant Steelix, but it's slow enough to get Aqua Tail so much more power) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veterans Azeria Posted June 18, 2014 Veterans Share Posted June 18, 2014 Cant Use Spinda For the First 2 gyms? Use Teddiursa It might evolve at level 30 which is when it trulybecomes usefull but it has pickup and Furry Swipes along with Feint attack and Lick Meaning Multipile Hits With Stab Never Missing and Parahax Chance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quattro Staravia Posted June 22, 2014 Author Share Posted June 22, 2014 Updated first post with an update on my example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etesian Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Well if it raises Ame's awareness of all of the broken early game stuff then that's good too right? I personally don't want a game where stuff like Gyarados and Staraptor are the only pokemon you need. Diversity is the spice of life, and if reborn can force you to find alternatives that work then I'd see that as a win. Still, I'd say we can look past Vespiquen and Stoutland. They ARE good, but next to no one uses them, so it's fine. Every other trainer had a Gyarados on their team and Crobat wasn't rare either. They also downright broke gyms, which was one of the main reasons those to got moved/axed. Stoutland can't hit super effectively with it's Stab,the fang moves are last resorts, only used if you have no other fire/electric/ice attacks, and it's second strongest move is gotten at level 63, at which point plenty of simply better Pokemon are availible. Even Take Down at LV15 won't save it from needing to be babysat until it evolves, and even when it does, better stuff is availible. Vespiquen is very good for that point, but removing/moving it is unnecessary if 1/500 people use it and even fewer keep it in the long run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheep Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Still, I'd say we can look past Vespiquen and Stoutland. They ARE good, but next to no one uses them, so it's fine. Every other trainer had a Gyarados on their team and Crobat wasn't rare either. They also downright broke gyms, which was one of the main reasons those to got moved/axed. Stoutland can't hit super effectively with it's Stab,the fang moves are last resorts, only used if you have no other fire/electric/ice attacks, and it's second strongest move is gotten at level 63, at which point plenty of simply better Pokemon are availible. Even Take Down at LV15 won't save it from needing to be babysat until it evolves, and even when it does, better stuff is availible. Vespiquen is very good for that point, but removing/moving it is unnecessary if 1/500 people use it and even fewer keep it in the long run. Oh absolutely. I wasn't saying they should be removed. That isn't my call, it's Ame's. What I said was just in principle, if there is something that's broken then it should be removed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soysauce Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 (edited) Did Petilil in Obsidia Park get moved? She's pretty awesome when paired with a Drought Ninetales. Sleep Powder, Quiver Dance, start the sweep (consider HP Ice or Fire as well). Pachirisu can Thunder Wave into Electro Ball, or use Charm, or Sweet Kiss. It's fast and it has a decent defensive power for the early game. Trubbish with Toxic Spikes (=> second gym...). Just a quick note, Staraptor is also a monster in episode 11 and 12, really good thing Ame axed it. Edited June 23, 2014 by Soysauce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Support Squad Felicity Posted June 23, 2014 Support Squad Share Posted June 23, 2014 Can't use Crobat? Take the next fat bastard: Swalot. On top of getting a lot of early status moves such as Yawn and poison gas, it has so much bulk early game that it takes the hits like a champ. Sonic Boom? Pfffft screw that. Cradily? Poison dat~ Oh, and Corey cannot Touch it, the only thing that threatens swalot is Skuntanks aftermath ability. That's it. The best possible wall early game, furthermore it gets Toxic early, and with the right breeding can step aside for a Toxic, yawn Quagsire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearadactyl Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Can't use Crobat? Take the next fat bastard: Swalot. On top of getting a lot of early status moves such as Yawn and poison gas, it has so much bulk early game that it takes the hits like a champ. Sonic Boom? Pfffft screw that. Cradily? Poison dat~ Oh, and Corey cannot Touch it, the only thing that threatens swalot is Skuntanks aftermath ability. That's it. The best possible wall early game, furthermore it gets Toxic early, and with the right breeding can step aside for a Toxic, yawn Quagsire. Personally, I'm more partial to Trubbish; I absolutely love having Garbodor. He's a little less bulky, and less Sp. Atk centric; but makes up for it with a surprisingly high speed stat, and a nice Attack stat. Not to mention it learns Stockpile + Swallow much earlier than Swalot, easily making up for being less bulky earlier in game. It won't have a great deal of Physical STAB moves, however I feel Acid Spray very early in to be more than sufficient enough due to the Sp. Def drop it provides; which can set you up for more effectiveness with other members of your party as well. Then, there's the matter of the obvious Toxic Spikes. All in all, Garbodor is a most have on my team. And, has been since Gen V came out. Though, not particularly due to usefullness; as much as it completes the Pollution Trinity and I think it looks cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etesian Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Well, this isn't exactly a substitution, but we've talked about OP Pokemon here as well, so I think Yamask should be moved to somewhere past Kiki. Not only is Cofagrigus's Mummy the perfect counter to Medicham, her arguably toughest Pokemon, it can also be bred to gain moves like Nasty Plot, making a sweep against Kiki really easy to pull off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mashonem Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Well, this isn't exactly a substitution, but we've talked about OP Pokemon here as well, so I think Yamask should be moved to somewhere past Kiki. Not only is Cofagrigus's Mummy the perfect counter to Medicham, her arguably toughest Pokemon, it can also be bred to gain moves like Nasty Plot, making a sweep against Kiki really easy to pull off. Eh, not feeling that. Granbull with Charm shits on most of KiKi's Pokemon (other than the special Lucario), are you suggest we move Snubble back a few Eps just because of that? Hell, Drought Ninetails has been the official counter to Serra's team since it was introduced, yet it still hasn't been removed. Simply being a counter to a gym leader isn't reason enough to be pushed back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebornRanger Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Well, this isn't exactly a substitution, but we've talked about OP Pokemon here as well, so I think Yamask should be moved to somewhere past Kiki. Not only is Cofagrigus's Mummy the perfect counter to Medicham, her arguably toughest Pokemon, it can also be bred to gain moves like Nasty Plot, making a sweep against Kiki really easy to pull off. ..not my cofagrigus he annihilated noels birds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quattro Staravia Posted June 24, 2014 Author Share Posted June 24, 2014 ..not my cofagrigus he annihilated noels birds How is that even possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tacos Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Well, you take away Staraptor's reckless and Swellow's guts, there half the pokemon they once were Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quattro Staravia Posted June 24, 2014 Author Share Posted June 24, 2014 Well, you take away Staraptor's reckless and Swellow's guts, there half the pokemon they once were No, I was thinking about how a Ghost Type Pokemon is able to hit Normal types. Something that shouldn't even be possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tacos Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 He's referring to cofagrigus as a defensive wall/ability nullifier and how effective it is against them, not how it is an offensive threat to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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