Suggestions for improving gameplay

[dondon151]

Hello everyone,

Never mind that this is my first post here. I enjoyed Reborn so much that I decided to create an account! As the topic title indicates, I have a handful of suggestions to improve Reborn's gameplay experience.

Improve contrast in night time palettes

I played this game mostly at night, and it was impossible to see anything, particularly inside Reborn City. GSC managed to seem bright at night time while being dark, and I imagine it's possible here, too. The solution on the player's end would just be to change the computer clock, but I don't think the player should have to do that every time he wants to play the game. It's an inconvenience that can be largely mitigated with a change in the game design.

There's way too much walking around

I understand that in previous versions of Reborn, Ralts and Abra were available early on and could be used to Teleport for faster transportation. Since they were deemed too strong and thus removed, I propose a handful of other possible solutions:

1. Introduce Natu earlier in the game.

Natu learns Teleport at L9. The best part about it is that it sucks! It learns no damaging moves between L6 (Night Shade) and L42 as a Xatu (Future Sight). It's a perfect candidate for an earlygame Pokemon in Reborn.

2. Introduce Baltoy in the mid-game.

Claydol learns Teleport via Heart Scale. It actually gets a pretty decent level-up movepool, though, and it's reasonably bulky, so it might qualify for being too good?

3. Introduce HM02 somewhere within the existing game.

My understanding is that Ame doesn't want to do this, for some reason. Fly is way more flexible than Teleport and is also a functional attacking move; those would be my guesses.

Teleport/Fly would exist purely for the player's convenience at very little cost to game difficulty. Being forced to walk around as much as you do right now almost strictly detracts from the experience. I love the setting in Reborn and I don't think it's at all possible to make the world a little more compact.

Introduce Super Repels earlier

Again, this is almost entirely a convenience thing, and it comes at no cost to game difficulty. It mostly means that the player has to deal with the "Do you want to use another?" prompt every 200 steps as opposed to every 100 steps with a Repel.

The level curve is a bit too Pokemon-esque

I appreciate the effort put in by the badge level restrictions. However, as in all Pokemon games, the level curve of the opponent Pokemon tends to be really flat in the early game and really steep later in the game. For reference, I probably had to use somewhere in the range of 16 Common Candies on my starter before getting the third badge, but by the time I was challenging Samson, my average team level (L55) was about 10 levels lower than his. Part of this was because I was trying to use a much bigger team, but I feel like using a bigger team was a huge mistake. Some may not think this is an issue, but I have suggestions nonetheless:

1. Increase the number of mandatory trainer battles later in the game.

Early on, the player is fighting Meteor Grunt after Meteor Grunt. Later on, there seem to very few mandatory trainer battles, at least relative to early on. Now, I'm a speedrunner at heart, and I find grinding to be a massive waste of time, so it's fine and all if you make me fight trainer battles, but if you give me the option to skip them, I'll probably take that instead. And I'd imagine so would a lot of other players.

2. The badge level limits don't have to be divisible by 5. (Neither do event Pokemon levels.)

I thought the L20 -> L25 improvement for the first badge in particular was way too low. Ame could do something like L20 -> L28 instead and scale up wild Pokemon and enemy trainers before the second gym by 1 to 3 levels likewise. (The second badge could stay at L35.) The level limit increments for later badges hardly even mattered because I wasn't close to hitting them, but enemy trainer levels were still scaling up, which meant that I became perpetually underleveled.

Pokemon always level up faster early than they do later because their EXP curve is cubic whereas the EXP given by defeating opponent Pokemon is linear. So I think the badge level limits should reflect that. (This is, incidentally, the reason why all Pokemon games tend to have a flat level curve in the beginning and a steep level curve at the end - because the designers don't account for this very well.)

3. Some of the obtainable Pokemon are underleveled.

To wit, most of the interactable Pokemon in Reborn City, Growlithe, Carvanha, etc. are underleveled, as are some of the wild Pokemon, like Sandile and Swinub in Tanzan Mts. or Sigilyph in Citae Arc-d'Astrae Aerie. Considering there's already a badge level limit to discourage excessive grinding, I'm not sure what the intention is in making, for example, Growlithe available ~8 levels lower than the rest of the player's team.

4. A more easily obtainable Exp. Share would be nice!

There's something discouraging about training a L48 Sigilyph on trainers with L64 Pokemon. The Exp. Share is mostly a freebie in the main series games, anyway.

Apologies for the wall of text. Despite all of the suggestions, there's probably even a larger wall of text that I could write about gameplay elements that I liked, but I'll just leave all of that to be inferred. I'm sure that some of these suggestions will be objected to, and I'll be happy to debate on them.

[Arkhi]

Several issues...
We have 18 types, with a gym leader/E4 member to each. That would mean 14 are gyms. Excluding Samson's, all the badges thus far have increased the level cap. At the rate of +5 per badge, we will reach level 90 (20 from the start, 14*5 [70] for the gyms) before the E4, assuming the rise is constant. A linear growth is easier for players to remember and likely easier to implement.
As for under-leveled Pokes, it may not be that they are under-leveled. You may be over. Additionally, and most specifically with event Pokes, their low levels are often a drawback to their potential when fully-evolved and a higher level. Reborn takes a realistic approach on the concept of Pokemon. If such a high-leveled Pokemon was in the city, it would cause havoc, and was shown to, with the explosion on the train and the dirtying of the lake.

Lastly, the Exp Share. That item is so useful and shards so plentiful that the only drawback is spending some time to dig up and use the itemfinder to obtain shards. The main series games baby us a lot, so putting in time to earn the item seems fair.

Anyway, this is my opinion. Speedrunners may find difficulty in the game from a lack of grinding, but taking your time has its benefits.

[Felicity]

Ok, At least you thought things out, kudos. Now, for the walking, I Dunno 'bout anyone else, but i don't find walking inconvenient. It would be if there was Random encounters, but those areas tend to be more compact, so not a big deal Imo, Furthermore, the music makes the trips much quicker. As for the night time issues, so long as it ain't storming you should be golden, and that certainly sets a mood for places like rhodochrine. As for fly, I 'unno, Ame does what Ame does. Next, the recommended pokemon, where would you introduce those pokemon, How would they be usable outside of Slavery? The general trend in event pokemon is that they must be a reward for your trouble, and Natu, Sorry Xatu followers, is not a reward in any way, even early game. So outside of events, where would they reside? These are the kind of issues with your suggestions that first come to mind.

P.s, Citae is the best possible place imo for those guys and there's no way that is being accessed early

Edit: I think Ark covered most of the other thangs as well

[dondon151]

We have 18 types, with a gym leader/E4 member to each. That would mean 14 are gyms. Excluding Samson's, all the badges thus far have increased the level cap. At the rate of +5 per badge, we will reach level 90 (20 from the start, 14*5 [70] for the gyms) before the E4, assuming the rise is constant. A linear growth is easier for players to remember and likely easier to implement.

The second badge yields a +10 level increase to the limit. But I don't think that a system such as this one should be kept because it's "easier for players to remember;" even with the badge level limits all being divisible by 5, I never remember the limits as they are anyway - I always have to check the FAQ.

The suggestions can be combined; for example, it could be perfectly fine for the level limits to increment by 5 later in the game so long as there are some more mandatory trainer battles or the player uses a smaller team of Pokemon. The L25 limit for the first badge is really the one that makes very little sense, though.

(It also shouldn't be difficult to change the badge level limits. I'm 99% certain that Ame would just have to change a few instances of 25, or 19 if she has to use hex, to 28 or whatever).

As for under-leveled Pokes, it may not be that they are under-leveled. You may be over.

I'll take you up on this claim. Growlithe joins at L20 and can be obtained right before ZEL and Taka, who have L27+ Pokemon. The badge limit is L35 and it's almost a given that your Pokemon have exceeded the previous badge limit of L25 by a large amount. How is it that I am overleveled and the Growlithe is not underleveled?

Shuppet appears at L20 and can be obtained right before Corey, who has L28+ Pokemon. How is it that I'm overleveled and the Shuppet is not underleveled?

Now, as for wild Pokemon examples. Sandile appears at L21 and Swinub at L29 at a point in the game where the average party level should be around L45, if not higher. How is it that I'm overleveled and these wild Pokemon are not underleveled?

Additionally, and most specifically with event Pokes, their low levels are often a drawback to their potential when fully-evolved and a higher level. Reborn takes a realistic approach on the concept of Pokemon. If such a high-leveled Pokemon was in the city, it would cause havoc, and was shown to, with the explosion on the train and the dirtying of the lake.

Lastly, the Exp Share. That item is so useful and shards so plentiful that the only drawback is spending some time to dig up and use the itemfinder to obtain shards. The main series games baby us a lot, so putting in time to earn the item seems fair.

Let me put it this way: if you design a game such that you offer the player a Pokemon that is too difficult to use without grinding by virtue of low starting level and inadequate tools to train it, then the simple option for the player is to not use it. And that's fine, because the player can get away with not using 99% of the Pokemon in the game. But this is a design choice that unintentionally limits Pokemon options that aren't even broken, anyway. (And I can't be the only person out there who doesn't take pleasure in grinding.)

Now, for the walking, I Dunno 'bout anyone else, but i don't find walking inconvenient. It would be if there was Random encounters, but those areas tend to be more compact, so not a big deal Imo, Furthermore, the music makes the trips much quicker.

It's great if you don't find walking inconvenient. If you're fine with it, then you have the option to not use Teleport. What about the players who do find walking inconvenient? GlitchxCity's music is great, but I know I'm not the only one who gets tired of listening to it after about 9 hours of game play, a huge portion of which is spent on the Bicycle listening to the Relic Castle remix. (I understand that this figure tends to be a lot higher for most players by the time they finish episode 12, so they would be even more tired of it than I am!)

As for the night time issues, so long as it ain't storming you should be golden, and that certainly sets a mood for places like rhodochrine.

Yes, I understand that it sets a mood. I'm perfectly convinced that it's possible to both set an appropriate mood and establish a level of color contrast that renders a map easy to navigate at night. Think of it this way: what's the point in setting the mood if it's unequivocally better for the player to change his clock and never experience that mood?

Next, the recommended pokemon, where would you introduce those pokemon, How would they be usable outside of Slavery? The general trend in event pokemon is that they must be a reward for your trouble, and Natu, Sorry Xatu followers, is not a reward in any way, even early game. So outside of events, where would they reside? These are the kind of issues with your suggestions that first come to mind.

I thought the goal was to introduce worse Pokemon in the early game? Natu is a perfect candidate for that. I mean, it's not like it can't deal damage, and some players will inevitably find a way to use it; I personally would only use it for Teleport. Functionally it's probably even worse than Woobat, who learns better damaging moves, a special Flying STAB, and Calm Mind.

For Natu in particular, it's a bird - you could literally make up an event pretty much anywhere and it would make sense. If you don't agree, look at its Pokedex entries:

"Natu has a highly developed jumping ability. The Pokémon flaps and leaps onto tree branches that are taller than grown-up people to pick at the tree's new shoots."

"It runs up short trees that grow on the savanna to peck at new shoots. A Natu's eyes look as if they are always observing something."

So obviously, it can work as a wild Pokemon in numerous places, provided that place has a ground and some foliage, and since my impression is that event Pokemon tend to be wandering, displaced Pokemon, it would make sense just about anywhere.

Baltoy is a harder sell, but again, if you're a good enough writer, you can write it in as an event Pokemon in more than just the Citae.

Edited July 24, 2014 by dondon151

[Tacos]

Hello everyone,

Never mind that this is my first post here. I enjoyed Reborn so much that I decided to create an account! As the topic title indicates, I have a handful of suggestions to improve Reborn's gameplay experience.

Improve contrast in night time palettes

I played this game mostly at night, and it was impossible to see anything, particularly inside Reborn City. GSC managed to seem bright at night time while being dark, and I imagine it's possible here, too. The solution on the player's end would just be to change the computer clock, but I don't think the player should have to do that every time he wants to play the game. It's an inconvenience that can be largely mitigated with a change in the game design.

There's way too much walking around

I understand that in previous versions of Reborn, Ralts and Abra were available early on and could be used to Teleport for faster transportation. Since they were deemed too strong and thus removed, I propose a handful of other possible solutions:

1. Introduce Natu earlier in the game.

Natu learns Teleport at L9. The best part about it is that it sucks! It learns no damaging moves between L6 (Night Shade) and L42 as a Xatu (Future Sight). It's a perfect candidate for an earlygame Pokemon in Reborn.

2. Introduce Baltoy in the mid-game.

Claydol learns Teleport via Heart Scale. It actually gets a pretty decent level-up movepool, though, and it's reasonably bulky, so it might qualify for being too good?

3. Introduce HM02 somewhere within the existing game.

My understanding is that Ame doesn't want to do this, for some reason. Fly is way more flexible than Teleport and is also a functional attacking move; those would be my guesses.

Teleport/Fly would exist purely for the player's convenience at very little cost to game difficulty. Being forced to walk around as much as you do right now almost strictly detracts from the experience. I love the setting in Reborn and I don't think it's at all possible to make the world a little more compact.

Introduce Super Repels earlier

Again, this is almost entirely a convenience thing, and it comes at no cost to game difficulty. It mostly means that the player has to deal with the "Do you want to use another?" prompt every 200 steps as opposed to every 100 steps with a Repel.

The level curve is a bit too Pokemon-esque

I appreciate the effort put in by the badge level restrictions. However, as in all Pokemon games, the level curve of the opponent Pokemon tends to be really flat in the early game and really steep later in the game. For reference, I probably had to use somewhere in the range of 16 Common Candies on my starter before getting the third badge, but by the time I was challenging Samson, my average team level (L55) was about 10 levels lower than his. Part of this was because I was trying to use a much bigger team, but I feel like using a bigger team was a huge mistake. Some may not think this is an issue, but I have suggestions nonetheless:

1. Increase the number of mandatory trainer battles later in the game.

Early on, the player is fighting Meteor Grunt after Meteor Grunt. Later on, there seem to very few mandatory trainer battles, at least relative to early on. Now, I'm a speedrunner at heart, and I find grinding to be a massive waste of time, so it's fine and all if you make me fight trainer battles, but if you give me the option to skip them, I'll probably take that instead. And I'd imagine so would a lot of other players.

2. The badge level limits don't have to be divisible by 5. (Neither do event Pokemon levels.)

I thought the L20 -> L25 improvement for the first badge in particular was way too low. Ame could do something like L20 -> L28 instead and scale up wild Pokemon and enemy trainers before the second gym by 1 to 3 levels likewise. (The second badge could stay at L35.) The level limit increments for later badges hardly even mattered because I wasn't close to hitting them, but enemy trainer levels were still scaling up, which meant that I became perpetually underleveled.

Pokemon always level up faster early than they do later because their EXP curve is cubic whereas the EXP given by defeating opponent Pokemon is linear. So I think the badge level limits should reflect that. (This is, incidentally, the reason why all Pokemon games tend to have a flat level curve in the beginning and a steep level curve at the end - because the designers don't account for this very well.)

3. Some of the obtainable Pokemon are underleveled.

To wit, most of the interactable Pokemon in Reborn City, Growlithe, Carvanha, etc. are underleveled, as are some of the wild Pokemon, like Sandile and Swinub in Tanzan Mts. or Sigilyph in Citae Arc-d'Astrae Aerie. Considering there's already a badge level limit to discourage excessive grinding, I'm not sure what the intention is in making, for example, Growlithe available ~8 levels lower than the rest of the player's team.

4. A more easily obtainable Exp. Share would be nice!

There's something discouraging about training a L48 Sigilyph on trainers with L64 Pokemon. The Exp. Share is mostly a freebie in the main series games, anyway.

Apologies for the wall of text. Despite all of the suggestions, there's probably even a larger wall of text that I could write about gameplay elements that I liked, but I'll just leave all of that to be inferred. I'm sure that some of these suggestions will be objected to, and I'll be happy to debate on them.

Walking around really isn't a problem I think, and night isn't that bad unless you have a thunderstorm going on. Ame has this whole game planned out, as well as the introduction of certain pokemon. Baltoy and Natu both probably are good where they are for now. Ame has already told us fly will definitely be late game no exceptions. Obtainable pokemon are underleveled to make the game difficult. If you haven't seen the "So you wanna play Pokemon Reborn" thread then you probably have not figured out how this game is meant to be. Exp share, that would also add to the games easiness. Your suggestions are nice but rather unlikely to occur.

[Rosesong]

I'm with Tacos, you need to read the "So you wanna play Pokemon Reborn" thread. This game is meant to kick your ass (pardon my French) and force you to use Pokemon and strategy that you never thought of in order to win. This isn't supposed to be your run of the mill Pokemon game, where you get the experience shareable can level others easily, can be on the same level as the gym leaders, or can get easily powerful Pokemon. I get where you're coming from, but every Pokemon has its place and can be used when it won't put you at a huge advantage

[dondon151]

Obtainable pokemon are underleveled to make the game difficult. If you haven't seen the "So you wanna play Pokemon Reborn" thread then you probably have not figured out how this game is meant to be.

I have read that thread, and part of my intention here is to challenge the assumed psychology employed when thinking about ways to make the game harder.

Let me reiterate something I said in my previous post:

"Let me put it this way: if you design a game such that you offer the player a Pokemon that is too difficult to use without grinding by virtue of low starting level and inadequate tools to train it, then the simple option for the player is to not use it. And that's fine, because the player can get away with not using 99% of the Pokemon in the game. But this is a design choice that unintentionally limits Pokemon options that aren't even broken, anyway."

I'll use the Growlithe example again. Suppose that in order for Growlithe to be even moderately useful in the ZEL and Taka battle, it needs to be at least L24. why not just make Growlithe obtainable at L24?

Requiring the player to grind these Pokemon before they become useful does not make the game harder. It only makes the game more tedious. Difficulty and tedium are not equivalent concepts. The player who wants to use Growlithe will grind it to at least L24 anyway; setting Growlithe's starting level to L20 doesn't make the game any more difficult, so why not save him the tedium in doing so?

It's entirely possible to preserve all of the difficulty that's already in Pokemon Reborn and cut down significantly on the tedium. I apologize if this line of reasoning is unconvincing, but I've observed that several users here go the length to breed egg moves and IVs onto their in-game teams, so it's hard for me to believe that nerfing a bunch of Pokemon's starting levels really has an effect on difficulty at all. It just encourages grinding - and wasn't the point of the badge level cap system to discourage that practice?

night isn't that bad unless you have a thunderstorm going on.

This really depends on the quality of your eyesight. Compare the following:

Edited July 25, 2014 by dondon151

[Rosesong]

Ok, so we're on a different page of grinding. What this game is designed to do is make sure that you can't grind above the gym leader's level and beat them easily. In that way, grinding is discouraged. However, if you really want to use a specific Pokemon, then if you grind it up to meet the levels of the rest of your team, that's your choice

[Felicity]

Ok, that's a lot to consider. First, there should be no point in time where you are listening to a piece of music for more than a couple of hours without a change, so to claim it gets repetitive at 9 hours suggests you have lingered in an area. If you have a task that keeps you there, such as hatching, then flick on a livestream or some such and listen to that. A simple resolution. As for considering others, if that happened, then everything would be lollipops and rainbows. Next, I believe Ark thought you were referring to the enemies being underleveld, or that's the impression i get. Onwards, For Growlithe etc being underleveled, That is easily solvable if you play right. Hell, i don't grind either and when i was at samson, i had several pokes breaching 60s, whereas you seem to be mid- late 50s. It's all a matter of playing your cards right. You can get the low leveled pokemon exp, you just gotta know when to switch em in and out, it would also help to try and determine if you want to use it before hand, and then grab it ASAP to get the most use. Next, you say you cannot remember the badge limit, that is the extent of your evidence. I'm sure that until we hit samson, who did not raise the level cap, we all knew what the level cap was. It's a simple matter of paying attention to dialogue. Finally, for the natu issue, the game is amazing at having pokemon reside in their natural habitats, Psychic types, and a bird at that, would naturall be found in a natural sanctuary like citae, with the power brimming down there. What sentient bird other than pidgeons would stay in a city?

Me thinks that's most of it -.-

Also, you have access to the Day care as well, in case you wish to level a poke whilst breeding n egg, that helps tremendously at that point in game, though obviously not later on

[dondon151]

However, if you really want to use a specific Pokemon, then if you grind it up to meet the levels of the rest of your team, that's your choice

I am not only speaking for myself here: if the game expects the player to grind a Pokemon up before it's usable, then it's already made a choice for the player.

So in general there are two categories of player:

1. Player who doesn't mind grinding

2. Player who does mind grinding

In the case of player 1, a lower or higher starting level is not going to impact the difficulty of the game for him because he's just going to grind it up to par if necessary. He can't grind it past the level cap, so that's nothing to worry about. In the case of player 2, a lower starting level renders the Pokemon unusable. The main attraction of the Pokemon franchise is its huge number of options that are available to the player.

Because the level cap exists, I'm sure that it's entirely possible to cater to both player 1 and player 2. I'm not saying that Pokemon like Growlithe should come fully battle-ready with a Fire Stone, but they should at least be able to fit into the party without having to invest time into leveling them up outside of the main storyline.

I would like to mention explicitly that the intention behind these suggestions is not to make the game easier but only to make the game less tedious. Florinia would still be difficult whether or not you made Makuhita available at L14 or L18, because one of the dominant strategies is to grind Makuhita to L24.

First, there should be no point in time where you are listening to a piece of music for more than a couple of hours without a change, so to claim it gets repetitive at 9 hours suggests you have lingered in an area.

That's actually not entirely what I meant. Glitchxcity employs a certain style in her music and tends to use the same instruments. A soundtrack doesn't necessarily have to be playing the same exact song in order to be repetitive. For example, if I forced you to listen to J. S. Bach for 9 hours, I'm willing to bet that unless you are a classical music connoiseur, you are going to find that to be repetitive, even if I remark in my defense that they are difference pieces and each piece uses different motifs within itself.

Also, Bicycle music. I absolutely love her Relic Castle remix, but the theme replaces the BGM in pretty much every location in which the Bicycle is usable. This is as close to a single repetitive track as the game gets.

Onwards, For Growlithe etc being underleveled, That is easily solvable if you play right. Hell, i don't grind either and when i was at samson, i had several pokes breaching 60s, whereas you seem to be mid- late 50s. It's all a matter of playing your cards right. You can get the low leveled pokemon exp, you just gotta know when to switch em in and out, it would also help to try and determine if you want to use it before hand, and then grab it ASAP to get the most use.

I'm going to point out, first of all, that I did all of this, and then I'll address each point separately.

Switching Pokemon in and out is tedious. Using the Exp. Share is not. Introducing a more accessible Exp. Share does not increase difficulty; it only decreases tedium. Since this is gen V Exp. Share, it doesn't increase the amount of experience that you obtain, so there's no way that it makes the game any easier.

My team post-Samson was L64 Blaziken, L60 Barbaracle, L56 Leavanny, L49 Sigilyph, and L48 Mamoswine. No amount of "playing my cards right" short of grinding can compensate for the fact that Sigilyph and Swinub appear at relatively very low levels. The same would apply with Growlithe at an earlier point in the game.

Next, you say you cannot remember the badge limit, that is the extent of your evidence. I'm sure that until we hit samson, who did not raise the level cap, we all knew what the level cap was. It's a simple matter of paying attention to dialogue.

You may not say that I'm not allowed to bring up the fact that I can't remember the badge limit levels when earlier Ark said this:

A linear growth is easier for players to remember and likely easier to implement.

In fact, your suggestion would resolve Ark's anticipated problem: if the player has trouble remembering that a badge sets a level limit to L36 or something, then he should pay attention to the dialogue.

Finally, for the natu issue, the game is amazing at having pokemon reside in their natural habitats, Psychic types, and a bird at that, would naturall be found in a natural sanctuary like citae, with the power brimming down there. What sentient bird other than pidgeons would stay in a city?

Did you read Natu's Pokedex entries? I specifically quoted them to show that their "natural habitat" is not on the rooftop of ancient buildings. It seems to me that Natu fits the triple criteria of:

- Fitting in, canonically, into various habitats

- Not breaking the game

- Being a huge convenience to the player

Edited July 25, 2014 by dondon151

[TheRockGhost72]

This may be a little off topic but on the issue of exp share, I never really used it before but has it been upgraded to gen six status? If so, that would make the game ridiculously easy. I would disagree with adding it in earlier. If any of you have played the game since episode 8 like I have, you know that Ame has already dumb down the game for naggers and complainers. I don't think the game should get any easier. As far as the "playing at night issue" I think you chose to play at that time, right You might just need glasses, my dude. Never had a problem seeing at night even during storms.

[Felicity]

Wait, you have a team of 5, 3 of which are underleveled??? How on Earth did you manage that?

I'm out

I am just Out

[derekwst3]

the only problem that may need a fix would be its nighttime which I will add weather, if possible I think they could be turned on off in the options, but turning them off also makes the event pokemon unavailable because the weather isn't ever happening...

music is cool, but if you cant stand the music they have some custom tracks, or do what I do and lower the volume and watch youtube videos in a different window, which you could use songs....

the underlever event pokemon does give it a little challenge, what it sounds like you want is a free beast that designed to take over a spot on your team, ame wants if you want to use a new pokemon you should raise it,

the gyms level limits doesn't effect the balance to much, what I think she should do is make the level limit lower than what the gym has so each battle will feel like you just managed to survive, expectially if your using pokemon to counter her pokemon types

lastly adding other pokemon will happen when she deems them ready, she even takes certain pokemon people seem to use more often out to try getting more random teams, for a while gyarados was in everyones main team because it is a beast, others included the ralts evolution, and I think the togekiss (I just know it was taken out, not sure if good or not)

[Felicity]

This may be a little off topic but on the issue of exp share, I never really used it before but has it been upgraded to gen six status? If so, that would make the game ridiculously easy. I would disagree with adding it in earlier. If any of you have played the game since episode 8 like I have, you know that Ame has already dumb down the game for naggers and complainers. I don't think the game should get any easier. As far as the "playing at night issue" I think you chose to play at that time, right You might just need glasses, my dude. Never had a problem seeing at night even during storms.

Actually, that point about it being dumbed down is very relevant. That's because you have to consider who the game was aimed at. Pokemon Veterans, who are accustomed to the inherent traits of a pokemon game, and likely RPGs as a whole. Grinding is an integral part of the game, reflecting the growth and effort you would have to put in to raise your pokemon and grow as a whole. The main point behind these improvements is to reduce tedium, when that is easily circumvented by the player.

[Arkhi]

O boi.

The soundtrack is great. When it gets excessive, simply turn it off and play some other music in the background. You can do that, or go to the Jukebox and change to another tune. Time to time, I play with and without the music, alternating between epic battle sessions and lazy hatching/travel segments.

Incredibly specific Pokemon being implemented is likely to fall on deaf ears. Natu's good for travel, but, because this game is not complete and still has plenty of bugs, an early-game opportunity to cause crashes, such as with teleport, can be an immediate shut-off for many. And if one still wants that Natu early-game, Dban1 has created a Trading Service, where Pokemon are very easy to find.

Dark points throughout the game give it a great feel. For a lot of it, you're in a city that is healing from and relapsing into disaster. Realistically, without power, the darkness in-game is accurate. If that's not up your alley, you could change your computer's clock to daytime or turn the brightness up significantly.

[dondon151]

If any of you have played the game since episode 8 like I have, you know that Ame has already dumb down the game for naggers and complainers. I don't think the game should get any easier.

I don't think it should, either. I'm simply advocating for it to become less tedious, not less difficult.

Wait, you have a team of 5, 3 of which are underleveled??? How on Earth did you manage that?

I already said that I don't grind.

the underlever event pokemon does give it a little challenge, what it sounds like you want is a free beast that designed to take over a spot on your team, ame wants if you want to use a new pokemon you should raise it,

I already pointed out the flaw in this piece of psychology. Rather than grinding a Pokemon, the better idea is to simply not use it, especially since the starter Pokemon can manage most tasks on his own. If you look at my team above, adding Sigilyph and Mamoswine actually hindered rather than helped my team, since Blaziken does better against Samson despite Sigilyph's type advantage. I could have had a higher average team level with just Blaziken, Barbaracle, and Leavanny. So the next time I play through the game, I'm just not going to bother with Sigilyph and Mamoswine.

Now, I made the distinction between the two player types in my previous post. One of them doesn't really care that Sigilyph appears underleveled. The other one is simply not going to use it, even though Sigilyph is a really cool Pokemon. It's perfectly possible to satisfy both types of player. And again, I'm not saying that Sigilyph should appear fully battle-ready, but I caught it roughly 11 levels under my team average (excluding Mamoswine, who was at an even lower level). Even a 4-6 level improvement would significantly reduce tedium while not compromising difficulty.

Grinding is an integral part of the game, reflecting the growth and effort you would have to put in to raise your pokemon and grow as a whole.

Should it be an integral part of the game? I have almost no incentive to grind a team of Pokemon when Blaziken can solo most difficult battles. If you want to encourage players to build full teams of varied Pokemon (which, I think, is one of the goals of Pokemon), my best suggestion is to cut down on the grinding requirement.

Incredibly specific Pokemon being implemented is likely to fall on deaf ears. Natu's good for travel, but, because this game is not complete and still has plenty of bugs, an early-game opportunity to cause crashes, such as with teleport, can be an immediate shut-off for many. And if one still wants that Natu early-game, Dban1 has created a Trading Service, where Pokemon are very easy to find.

Dark points throughout the game give it a great feel. For a lot of it, you're in a city that is healing from and relapsing into disaster. Realistically, without power, the darkness in-game is accurate. If that's not up your alley, you could change your computer's clock to daytime or turn the brightness up significantly.

I am not specifically suggesting Natu because I like Natu. I'm suggesting it because there are literally only 5 Pokemon lines that learn Teleport by level up, 2 of which were already removed for being too OP, and 1 of which is Deoxys. What I'm really suggesting is to improve Teleport's availability.

Let me provide an analogy here. You are designing a UI for an iPad application. Some users give you feedback and say that some parts of the app are difficult to use because they are hard to see. Do you:

1. Alter the design so that it addresses the users' problems.

2. Explain to the users that you've picked out a good color scheme and recommend they deal with it.

3. Ask the users to use a third party source to suit the design to their own needs.

Once more, I will reiterate that I believe it fully possible to convey the atmosphere while using a palette that is easy on the eyes. Do you agree or disagree with this statement?

Edited July 25, 2014 by dondon151

[Felicity]

Ok, now i see things clearer. You Rely on Blaziken. Dude, i dunno if you got the memo, But Blaziken IS FREAKING INSANE. Of course he can handle most tasks, get the speed boost, sweep. One of the biggest parts of the game is to build a diverse team that can handle each obstacle in your path. You don't need to grind in the game, but you have just been jamming exp down that blazikins throat. All that exp was wasted when you used a common candy, when you could have slowed the blazikins growth whilst RAISING ANOTHER POKEMON. That's a result of your own choices in game, and that doesn't mean you can go ahead and ask for the game to change when it was your choice that created your situation. I can prove my point with 6 different save files, with full teams of 6 around the early 60s that DID NOT REQUIRE GRINDING.

Rant over

[TheRockGhost72]

You make a good point dondon. No one should have to grind if they don't want or need to especially if they can acquire higher level pokes in the wild. But you can't say that grinding does not make the game harder or easier. For instance, if you are looking for a new electric type to add to your team and you have all the means to get an electivire by grinding and elekid but, instead, you find an electivire in the wild that is the same level as your current team, would the game not be made easier if you were able to catch it right on the spot. There is no way you would start with an elekid at that point. training that elekid from a low level poke to a nice and powerful electivire can cause unwanted damage to pokemon in your party, deaths to other pokemon in your party and potential lost battles because you are sacrificing time in-battle to grind which is challenging. Grinding is tedious but also challenging which is one necessary way to keep the game difficult.

[dondon151]

You don't need to grind in the game, but you have just been jamming exp down that blazikins throat. All that exp was wasted when you used a common candy, when you could have slowed the blazikins growth whilst RAISING ANOTHER POKEMON.

I actually used very few Common Candies past the third gym when I expanded my team to include Leavanny and then Barbaracle. I don't think I can be accused of wasting experience when none of the Pokemon that I used were available until later in the game.

I did "waste" a whole lot of experience before then, but seeing as how the player is encouraged to use throwaway Pokemon until better Pokemon are available later in the game, I can hardly see how that experience could be used better. One observation that I had was that training up another Pokemon was far more tedious than just using Combusken on everything (because these Pokemon were quite underleveled). Because of the dearth of earlygame money, training a secondary Pokemon required making numerous return trips to the Pokemon Center, so I just didn't bother with it.

There was a decision between "wasting experience" and impeding my progress through the game; the choice was pretty easy to make.

By the way, I don't like starter soloing in the main series games, even though I dabble in speedrunning where starter soloing is the best way to go. The variety is a great feature in Pokemon, but it's a bit irksome when variety is discouraged because it takes too much time to achieve.

For instance, if you are looking for a new electric type to add to your team and you have all the means to get an electivire by grinding and elekid but, instead, you find an electivire in the wild that is the same level as your current team, would the game not be made easier if you were able to catch it right on the spot.

I fully understand the point you are making, and I agree with you, but I am not advocating for that. The choice is something more like a L5 Elekid vs. a L40 Electabuzz when the rest of your team averages L45 and you don't yet have an Electrizer. You strike a balance this way: you cut out 35 levels of grinding, and you get a Pokemon that can hold his own in some battles and does poorly in others until he catches up.

It could be that as part of the game design, Ame still wants some Pokemon to be low-leveled rarities, like the starters or Elekid. That's perfectly fine, but you obviously can't treat every Pokemon that has a hint at being good this way. The problem is when the alternatives are stuff like L32 Joltik or L32 Chinchou. So now, if you have a choice between L5 Elekid and those two alternatives when the team average is L45, then no thanks, I don't think I want an Electric type.

Grinding is tedious but also challenging which is one necessary way to keep the game difficult.

Grinding is not challenging. You run around in an area with wild Pokemon and potion up or PC up when necessary.

Edited July 25, 2014 by dondon151

[TheRockGhost72]

Very few people like grinding because it takes time and effort, time and effort that can be used else where. But the very definition of challenging is something that takes time and effort. Grinding takes time and effort therefore less of it would make Pokemon Reborn much easier, in theory. Which is why that aspect of the game is not likely to change. In future episodes there will be many more event Pokemon and those in the wild that you want that have very low levels compared to the rest of your team. The challenge is catching them and grinding them period.

[Rosesong]

Partner, even in the main games event Pokemon are under leveled. Rotom is at lv 15, legendary trios are at a lesser level, Shaymin is at lv30. You're supposed to raise your Pokemon; it's the premise of the game. You really sound like Paul from the anime; catch them strong and if they're weak, release them. You don't want to train a low leveled Pokemon, don't use it bro. I'm not trying to be rude, but come on.

[Lealush]

Honestly I don't find this game with much grinding if I am grinding to level a pokemon it's because Hatching eggs over and over and over. Besides that I honestly don't grind and have about 8 lvl70 pokemon now I have done this a few times with about 3 different saves but I still don't feel this game is that bad on grinding lvls. Sure the no fly is annoying but hey see it this way is the Reborn map as big as say Emerald or Platinum well it might be but I sure don't think so, traveling how it is, is oh well honestly fly is just a special treat that pokemon fans even got. Introducing Natu or something else with teleport FFFFFFFFFF that we already had enough glitches with teleport to get a Beldum if any remembers that. Oh and from how your team is put looks like you just kinda rushed it and as you said you like to speed run with your starter in other games why not just witch between pokemon and you probably would have had higher lvl pokemon without grinding. Well that's my $0.02 in oh and the screen when it's dark has never bothered me unless I like set my dimming of my screen to it's lowest settings.

[dondon151]

Very few people like grinding because it takes time and effort, time and effort that can be used else where. But the very definition of challenging is something that takes time and effort.

That's actually not the definition of a challenge. The definition that you're looking for is most likely:

chal·lenge [chal-inj] Show IPA

noun

2. something that by its nature or character serves as a call to battle, contest, special effort, etc. or

5. difficulty in a job or undertaking that is stimulating to one engaged in it.

Explain to me how in any way grinding is "stimulating to one engaged in it." It's the precise opposite, which is why many people dislike it. In general, actual battle difficulty is a challenge the players enjoy whereas grinding is not a task the player enjoys. The reason is simple: the latter is not challenging; it is tedious.

I can assure you that reducing the required amount of grinding will not make Pokemon Reborn any easier, and this is more or less ensured by the badge level cap system. Florinia is still going to be tough if you didn't pick a Fire type starter. Aya is still going to be tough unless you got just the right Psychic or Ground type Pokemon. And so on.

Partner, even in the main games event Pokemon are under leveled. Rotom is at lv 15, legendary trios are at a lesser level, Shaymin is at lv30. You're supposed to raise your Pokemon; it's the premise of the game. You really sound like Paul from the anime; catch them strong and if they're weak, release them. You don't want to train a low leveled Pokemon, don't use it bro. I'm not trying to be rude, but come on.

Did you know that I completed a 0 EXP speedrun of Pokemon White? Especially in the later main series games, the game provides ample Pokemon that do not require much grinding to be usable. This was one aspect that I greatly liked about BW and the 0 EXP speedrun was probably the most fun I ever had playing a Pokemon game since it neither required a starter solo nor grinding.

The playlist can be found here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPtcK2f-aIoSA-sNkTz1zw3ENK-Nmv8_i

I am not expecting every single Pokemon to be available at an immediately usable level, and as I said in my previous post, it's perfectly fine if a subset of event Pokemon appear underleveled. Since there are so many event Pokemon in this game that they can easily constitute your entire team, I don't think it's a good idea for all of them to appear underleveled.

Honestly I don't find this game with much grinding if I am grinding to level a pokemon it's because Hatching eggs over and over and over. Besides that I honestly don't grind and have about 8 lvl70 pokemon now I have done this a few times with about 3 different saves but I still don't feel this game is that bad on grinding lvls.

You just said that you breed Pokemon to use on your team. Hatched Pokemon are L1. Opponent trainer Pokemon are several times more powerful than L1. How is this not grinding?

Oh and from how your team is put looks like you just kinda rushed it and as you said you like to speed run with your starter in other games why not just witch between pokemon and you probably would have had higher lvl pokemon without grinding.

Because I would be wasting my time when I could be not wasting my time?

Edited July 25, 2014 by dondon151

[Lost Lore]

Wild Pokemon are below the levels of those the trainers have in every single Pokemon game. You are inevitably going to be grinding to get things caught up, and that's just assuming you're like me and like having your team evenly-leveled to a slim margin. Most people are not.

The point of the game is not to have something you can use effortlessly handed to you on a silver platter- you're supposed to put forward the work to train up a new team member. Otherwise, well, things would be hell of a lot more boring, if you ask me. That point is especially pushed home in Reborn, where the game has been tailored to more experienced players and is thus designed to challenge them.

As you've said you prefer speed-running however and generally just stick to one Pokemon? I think it's fairly obvious that you're not used to using a full team, namely the grinding that naturally comes with that, and that is the main problem here.

...My apologies if I sound snippy, I was not trying to come across as rude.

[TheRockGhost72]

Dondon isn't saying he doesn't want to grind, just not so such huge level gaps. He is also saying that he doesn't mind the lower leveled pokes, but make sure they a not so low that they would steal too much game time away from him and his other gaming endeavors. Honestly, he might want a separate version of reborn for speedrunners.