Suggestions for improving gameplay

[Personthing]

I personally think dondon151 makes some really good points with his posts. Grinding up a weak pokemon to a decent level is a fairly mindless experience, and can take forever and a half depending on what point in the game you are. EX: Grinding up a weaker pokemon to a decent level before Julia is not very time consuming, but grinding a weak pokemon to a decent level before Radomus (Can't remember if I'm spelling his name right) takes an extremely long time to do and isn't enjoyable to do due to the relationship of level and experience. I personally (if you disagree with me that's fine, my opinion doesn't make the opinion of anyone who disagrees with me wrong) think that it would be best if wild pokemon (and some events as well, depends on the evolutionary stage as finding a level 38 Mudkip in the wastelands would be silly) would be within a level range (and an evolutionary stage) that would make them at least usable against the trainers in the same area from the get-go. (Not able to plow through opponents, but at least usable so that you can get them up to speed through the story and not have to grind for ages)

Regardless of this though, I do really enjoy Pokemon Reborn, and I thank Amethyst for making this game.

Edited July 26, 2014 by Mighty Kamina

[Sheep]

Well, I do think there should be enough mandatory trainers such that a player using a 2-or-3-Pokemon team can keep up in levels. If the player is using more Pokemon, then there should also be enough optional trainers such that those additional Pokemon can be somewhat adequately trained without grinding in the grass.

As Ame pointed out, I mentioned that the mandatory trainer density early in the game is much higher compared to that in the late game, and her suggestion was to reduce the early game trainer density.

Wait, so you want to reduce the number of mandatory trainers in the early game to an amount such that a team of only 2-3 pokemon will wind up near the level caps by their respective gym battles? Why? Isn't it easy enough to just use common candies to regulate the level of your pokemon if you prefer to play with less? I usually have around 3-4 pokemon by Julia and 5 by Florinia, and my pokemon are usually at an appropriate level. On my first run through the game, when I still had my fire emblem perspective, I had 3 by Florinia and my pokemon were all around 25.

By having a large experience load in the early game, with access to common candies it allows for playstyles with both large and small parties to be viable. When you decrease the amount of trainer experience available, you restrict us to only using small parties through the early game, and if we want to use larger ones we have to grind. As for having non-mandatory trainers for people using more pokemon, wouldn't that complicate level design to an unnecessary level? From what I've read here your problems can simply be fixed with a few common candies.

As for grinding new pokemon up to the level of your current team? I kind of like the grind. It reminds you how tough the rest of your pokemon are, seeing as you have to work so hard to bring fresh pokemon to their level. Besides a little grinding isn't going to hurt anyone.

Edited July 26, 2014 by Sheep

[mashonem]

Well once you understood what you had to do it was just an hour or jumping over rocks and using strength. Then you're punished heavily if you fuck up even once by having to go all the way back with the powders. The puzzle loses appeal very quickly. Lag from the legion of rocks doesn't help, either.

Blackstream factory and some gym puzzles (2nd, 4th) were pretty good. Pre-Arceus fight logic puzzle as well.

This is the worst part about the puzzle: it's not hard when you understand what you need to do, but the game makes you suffer if you screw up.

[dondon151]

Wait, so you want to reduce the number of mandatory trainers in the early game to an amount such that a team of only 2-3 pokemon will wind up near the level caps by their respective gym battles?

No, I actually don't want to do this, but it doesn't seem like my suggestion of increasing the amount of mandatory trainer battles was very popular. What I proposed in your quoted post was that there should at least be enough mandatory trainer battles such that a team of 2-3 Pokemon will not fall behind on levels, and any more mandatory or optional trainer battles is just icing on the cake.

I'm ambivalent about reducing the density of early trainers; that was Ame's idea. My original suggestion was to increase the density of mandatory trainer battles later in the game.

As for grinding new pokemon up to the level of your current team? I kind of like the grind. It reminds you how tough the rest of your pokemon are, seeing as you have to work so hard to bring fresh pokemon to their level. Besides a little grinding isn't going to hurt anyone.

A lot of players don't like the grind. I'm going to refer back to the whole point that I made earlier on unintended consequences. Suppose that you design the game such that the player has to run around in grass or repeatedly switch train for 20 minutes just to bring any newly obtained Pokemon up to par. The intended consequence is to give the player the satisfaction of training that Pokemon up. The unintended consequence is that some players will just ignore all of the Pokemon. You can't just focus on the intended consequences, declare that the game is supposed to be played this way, and insist that there isn't a problem.

Suppose that Reborn required generally less grinding to use most Pokemon than it does now. It's not gone completely, but it's been reduced. This would enhance my (i.e., type 2 player) enjoyment of the game. Would it decrease your enjoyment of the game? Are you going to think, "shucks, I have to grind slightly less now; this game is less fun?" The notion seems a bit absurd to me, but you tell me, because I'm not that kind of player. I really can't imagine that the type 1 player would find Reborn less fun if there was overall a bit less grinding required, because you still have the option to engage in activities like breeding for egg moves, which marks the epitome of grinding in this game.

I disagree with the statement "a little grinding isn't going to hurt anyone." I mean, it really doesn't hurt, in any sense of the word, but I think you're trying to imply that grinding doesn't detract from the player's enjoyment of the game, or something. There are games where their entire purpose is to engage the player in mindless grinding (Cookie Clicker, anyone?). Does Reborn want to be that kind of game?

Edited July 26, 2014 by dondon151

[Sheep]

No, I actually don't want to do this, but it doesn't seem like my suggestion of increasing the amount of mandatory trainer battles was very popular. What I proposed in your quoted post was that there should at least be enough mandatory trainer battles such that a team of 2-3 Pokemon will not fall behind on levels, and any more mandatory or optional trainer battles is just icing on the cake.

I'm ambivalent about reducing the density of early trainers; that was Ame's idea. My original suggestion was to increase the density of mandatory trainer battles later in the game.

That's fair then. Personally, I'd be against any movement to reduce the amount of experience in the early game because I think it works well as is, but I'd also advise caution where increasing the amount of experience in the (current) late game is concerned. I think it'd be best to wait until more of the game is created and we can see how close we're running to level 100. Pretty sure that's already been covered to death though so that's cool.

A lot of players don't like the grind. I'm going to refer back to the whole point that I made earlier on unintended consequences. Suppose that you design the game such that the player has to run around in grass or repeatedly switch train for 20 minutes just to bring any newly obtained Pokemon up to par. The intended consequence is to give the player the satisfaction of training that Pokemon up. The unintended consequence is that some players will just ignore all of the Pokemon. You can't just focus on the intended consequences, declare that the game is supposed to be played this way, and insist that there isn't a problem.

No you're right you can't. However, Ame is right in saying it's slightly ridiculous to have high level first stage pokemon running around reborn towards the end of the game. The easiest solution to this problem that I can see is to simply have fully evolved pokemon as the main wild species association in the later parts of the game. However, there are people who enjoy the process of evolving their pokemon from the first stage to the last, even if the required level to obtain the last stage of the evolutionary line is below your current team level. Perhaps wild species associations should be a mix of both pre-evolved and post-evolved pokemon, each equally common in order to cater for everyone's individual tastes. Ultimately these sorts of decisions aren't for us to make though, they're for Ame.

Suppose that Reborn required generally less grinding to use most Pokemon than it does now. It's not gone completely, but it's been reduced. This would enhance my (i.e., type 2 player) enjoyment of the game. Would it decrease your enjoyment of the game? Are you going to think, "shucks, I have to grind slightly less now; this game isn't fun anymore?" The notion seems a bit absurd to me, but you tell me, because I'm not that kind of player. I really can't imagine that the type 1 player would find Reborn less fun if there was overall a bit less grinding required, because you still have the option to engage in activities like breeding for egg moves, which marks the epitome of grinding in this game.

No, I don't think I would find it any less enjoyable. However, I would probably be less satisfied with (for example) leveling a Mareep up once to see it evolve into a Flaaffy, and then leveling that Flaaffy up once more to obtain an Ampharos, no matter how many levels you need to train the Ampharos for after that, than I would be with a full blown grind from level 10 or so. Whether that lack of satisfaction would be enough to overcome the convenience of catching a Mareep at level 50 rather than level 10 I don't know. I'd probably go with the level 50 one if given the choice. However being someone who doesn't necessarily dislike grinding I'm somewhat grateful to Ame for denying me that choice as I get more satisfaction from the grind. Does that make sense?

I disagree with the statement "a little grinding isn't going to hurt anyone." I mean, it really doesn't hurt, in any sense of the word, but I think you're trying to imply that grinding doesn't detract from the player's enjoyment of the game, or something. There are games where their entire purpose is to engage the player in mindless grinding (Cookie Clicker, anyone?). Does Reborn want to be that kind of game?

Allow me to be a little snarky and say that I don't think Reborn want's anything in particular seeing as it's a game. That aside I don't think anyone wants to see it become something like that, but I also don't think it is at the moment. There's a difference between endless mindless grinding and occasional purposeful grinding. I don't change my team structure enough that Reborn becomes more about the grind than the gameplay, and therefore I'm of the mindset that not many (if any) people do.

Edited July 26, 2014 by Sheep

[Foamy]

Blacksteam Factory comes to mind immediately

Oh man, that puzzle was ingenious.

I've said a number of times I regret the Crustle puzzle. It should be noted part of the reason it's so tedious is RMXP limitations that I failed to foresee, but even aside from that it was very unclear. Some additional dialogue in 13 should help this, as well as decreased lag, and I've cleared out some of the unnecessary rock-jumps.

Personally, I loved the Crustle puzzle. It was fun for me the whole way through, in just about every aspect.

It didn't hurt that the background music never got old, either.

[Yazmat]

I have to agree with dondon here about grinding and Pokemon you get later. If it weren´t for the Grand Hall trainers I would have totally stopped caring about training new Pokemon after Aya. I don´t find grinding satisfying and pretty tiresome and distract me from the rest of the game. I didn´t even care about one of the Pokemon on route 2 besides Crustle because I had to grind them against a lot of wild Pokemon. Which brings me to the next point: More trainer battles in the late game. I definitely think there should be a lot more trainers on Route 2. Also there should be trainers who re-battle you every day like those in the Grand Hall at the Agate Circus or give us the VS-Seeker as a prize for one of those puzzles.

Edit:

In my opinion the Crustle puzzle is like the worst part of the game because it´s so easy to screw up with a missclick and the angle of those Crustles doesn´t fit with the rest of the map which makes it kinda hard to see if it would fit between the stones.

Another thing I hate is the dependence of useless HM in the middle game. On example which comes to mind is Azurine Island. I´m pretty sure no one is going to teach Cut to one of his Pokemon in the main team so they are going to get a HM Slave. Wouldn´t be to bad if at the end of this weren´t two Boss battles back to back (I consider Aster and Eclipse as a boss battle). Atleast give us a PC before so we can change our team before or make HMs to TMs so I can just delete them.

Edited July 26, 2014 by Yazmat

[Rewer]

Thats highly subjective but anyway my opinion is that in the crustle puzzle the weird space distribution, lag and lightning made it kind of unfun but the music and the prupose of it were good. the lag and lighting being fixed is very nice. as a suggestion i think it could have less hard puzzle and more trainer battles also helping with grinding for samson. Dont get me wrong though, i dont think samson is too hard at all, its just that he is overleveled and the field is very abuseable, good thing his ai isnt very smart

Edited July 26, 2014 by Rewer

[Sheep]

In my opinion the Crustle puzzle is like the worst part of the game because it´s so easy to screw up with a missclick and the angle of those Crustles doesn´t fit with the rest of the map which makes it kinda hard to see if it would fit between the stones.

Another thing I hate is the dependence of useless HM in the middle game. On example which comes to mind is Azurine Island. I´m pretty sure no one is going to teach Cut to one of his Pokemon in the main team so they are going to get a HM Slave. Wouldn´t be to bad if at the end of this weren´t two Boss battles back to back (I consider Aster and Eclipse as a boss battle). Atleast give us a PC before so we can change our team before or make HMs to TMs so I can just delete them.

Personally I really liked the Crustle puzzle. I dunno, I just found it really enjoyable.

I definitely agree with adding in a PC on Azurine Island though. I like that there's cut trees there but I don't like having a cut slave as one of my pokemon when going up against Taka. Also is it just me or did Aster and Eclipse recently get a buff there? I don't remember them having a Rhydon and a Milotic before. Could just be me though, either way it's awesome.

Same deal with strength and the Yureyu Building, but strength can at least be kind of useful in battle sometimes.

Edited July 26, 2014 by Sheep

[crashteamalphing]

With the lighting, I think having three sets is probably unnecesary, but I am impressed nonetheless. Do you mind taking some screens of each of your modifications at different points?

Three sets is just a random number, it could've been 2, 4 or 200. I don't mind taking screens but have no idea how to do it since the F8 key that is supposed to be used to take screenshots, doesn't work for me. Also, I just implemented the scripts that allow to make 3 (or more) different sets of light tones and to change them via options. I was more expecting that you'd want to define the tones yourself, seeing as you're the artistic person here. I did define them, but like, they could use some work...

[Sheep]

Just use print screen and then crop it in paint. That's what I do.

[crashteamalphing]

Just use print screen and then crop it in paint. That's what I do.

yeah that doesn't help, you have to be more specific about what print screen is. Anyway I won't waste time with this, and just give the code. Also I've changed it to only have 2 different tones. For the moment there may not be much difference between the two, but the decision belongs to Ame what tones she wants anyway.

-------------in PokemonTime, at the beginning, add the red bits, striked through code needs to be taken out------------------------

module PBDayNight

HourlyTones=[

Tone.new(-142.5,-142.5,-22.5,68), # Midnight

Tone.new(-135.5,-135.5,-24, 68),

Tone.new(-127.5,-127.5,-25.5,68),

Tone.new(-127.5,-127.5,-25.5,68),

Tone.new(-119, -96.3, -45.3,45.3),

Tone.new(-51, -73.7, -73.7,22.7),

Tone.new(17, -51, -102, 0), # 6AM

Tone.new(14.2, -42.5, -85, 0),

Tone.new(11.3, -34, -68, 0),

Tone.new(8.5, -25.5, -51, 0),

Tone.new(5.7, -17, -34, 0),

Tone.new(2.8, -8.5, -17, 0),

Tone.new(0, 0, 0, 0), # Noon

Tone.new(0, 0, 0, 0),

Tone.new(0, 0, 0, 0),

Tone.new(0, 0, 0, 0),

Tone.new(-3, -7, -2, 0),

Tone.new(-10, -18, -5, 0),

Tone.new(-36, -75, -13, 0), # 6PM

Tone.new(-72, -136, -34, 3),

Tone.new(-88.5, -133, -31, 34),

Tone.new(-108.5,-129, -28, 68),

Tone.new(-127.5,-127.5,-25.5,68),

Tone.new(-142.5,-142.5,-22.5,68)

]

HourlyTones2=[

Tone.new(-100.5,-100.5,-18.5,60), # Midnight

Tone.new(-95.5,-95.5,-20, 60),

Tone.new(-87.5,-87.5,-21.5,60),

Tone.new(-87.5,-87.5,-21.5,60),

Tone.new(-79, -80.3, -43.3,40.3),

Tone.new(-51, -73.7, -73.7,20.7),

Tone.new(17, -51, -102, 0), # 6AM

Tone.new(14.2, -42.5, -85, 0),

Tone.new(11.3, -34, -68, 0),

Tone.new(8.5, -25.5, -51, 0),

Tone.new(5.7, -17, -34, 0),

Tone.new(2.8, -8.5, -17, 0),

Tone.new(0, 0, 0, 0), # Noon

Tone.new(0, 0, 0, 0),

Tone.new(0, 0, 0, 0),

Tone.new(0, 0, 0, 0),

Tone.new(-3, -7, -2, 0),

Tone.new(-10, -18, -5, 0),

Tone.new(-36, -75, -13, 0), # 6PM

Tone.new(-62, -106, -34, 3),

Tone.new(-77.5, -103, -30, 30),

Tone.new(-88.5,-99, -25, 60),

Tone.new(-97.5,-97.5,-21.5,60),

Tone.new(-100.5,-100.5,-18.5,60)

]

@cachedTone=nil

@dayNightToneLastUpdate=nil

# Returns true if it's day.

def self.isDay?(time)

return (time.hour>=6 && time.hour<20)

end

# Returns true if it's night.

def self.isNight?(time)

return (time.hour>=20 || time.hour<6)

end

# Returns true if it's morning.

def self.isMorning?(time)

return (time.hour>=6 && time.hour<12)

end

# Returns true if it's the afternoon.

def self.isAfternoon?(time)

return (time.hour>=12 && time.hour<20)

end

# Returns true if it's the evening.

def self.isEvening?(time)

return (time.hour>=17 && time.hour<20)

end

# Gets a number representing the amount of daylight (0=full night, 255=full day).

def self.getShade

time=pbGetDayNightMinutes

time=(24*60)-time if time>(12*60)

shade=255*time/(12*60)

end

# Gets a Tone object representing a suggested shading

# tone for the current time of day.

def self.getTone()

return Tone.new(0,0,0) if !ENABLESHADING

if !@cachedTone

@cachedTone=Tone.new(0,0,0)

end

if !@dayNightToneLastUpdate || @dayNightToneLastUpdate!=Graphics.frame_count

@cachedTone=getToneInternal()

@dayNightToneLastUpdate=Graphics.frame_count

end

return @cachedTone

end

def self.pbGetDayNightMinutes

now=pbGetTimeNow # Get the current in-game time

return (now.hour*60)+now.min

end

private

# Internal function

def self.getToneInternal()

# Calculates the tone for the current frame, used for day/night effects

realMinutes=pbGetDayNightMinutes

hour=realMinutes/60

minute=realMinutes%60

tone=PBDayNight::HourlyTones[hour]

nexthourtone=PBDayNight::HourlyTones[(hour+1)%24]

if $PokemonSystem.nightpalette==0

tone=PBDayNight::HourlyTones[hour]

nexthourtone=PBDayNight::HourlyTones[(hour+1)%24]

else

tone=PBDayNight::HourlyTones2[hour]

nexthourtone=PBDayNight::HourlyTones2[(hour+1)%24]

end

---------PokemonOptions, around line 310, just add the red bits--------------------

class PokemonSystem

attr_accessor :nightpalette

attr_accessor :textspeed

attr_accessor :battlescene

attr_accessor :battlestyle

attr_accessor :frame

attr_accessor :textskin

attr_accessor :font

attr_accessor :screensize

attr_accessor :tilemap

attr_accessor :language

def language

return (!@language) ? 0 : @language

end

def textskin

return (!@textskin) ? 0 : @textskin

end

def initialize

@nightpalette= 0 # Night palette (0=dark, 1=light)

@textspeed = 2 # Text speed (0=slow, 1=mid, 2=fast)

@battlescene = 0 # Battle scene (animations) (0=on, 1=off)

@battlestyle = 1 # Battle style (0=shift, 1=set)

@frame = 0 # Default window frame (see also $TextFrames)

@textskin = 0 # Speech frame

@font = 0 # Font (see also $VersionStyles)

@screensize = DEFAULTSCREENZOOM.floor # 0=half size, 1=full size, 2=double size

@tilemap = MAPVIEWMODE # Map view (0=original, 1=custom, 2=perspective)

@language = 0 # Language (see also LANGUAGES in script PokemonSystem)

end

end

class PokemonOptionScene

def pbUpdate

pbUpdateSpriteHash(@sprites)

end

def pbStartScene

@sprites={}

@viewport=Viewport.new(0,0,Graphics.width,Graphics.height)

@viewport.z=99999

@sprites["title"]=Window_UnformattedTextPokemon.newWithSize(

_INTL("Options"),0,0,Graphics.width,64,@viewport)

@sprites["textbox"]=Kernel.pbCreateMessageWindow

@sprites["textbox"].letterbyletter=false

@sprites["textbox"].text=_INTL("Speech frame {1}.",1+$PokemonSystem.textskin)

# These are the different options in the game. To add an option, define a

# setter and a getter for that option. To delete an option, comment it out

# or delete it. The game's options may be placed in any order.

@PokemonOptions=[

EnumOption.new(_INTL("Night Tone"),[_INTL("Dark"),_INTL("Light")],

proc { $PokemonSystem.nightpalette },

proc {|value|

$PokemonSystem.nightpalette=value

}

),

etc...

Edited July 26, 2014 by crashteamalphing

[Amethyst]

...I think Essentials must have reverted the old day/night system because this is entirely different from when I last examined it. And thank god because the old one was a mess.

Awesome.

[crashteamalphing]

As I was taking a shower I realised why the code possibly wouldn't work as intended, and indeed after checking, it seems every time you load the game the light settings revert back to their default value. In its current state, if you wanted to play with "light" settings, you'd have to set that every time you load the game. So that's unacceptable lol, I will try to change that but it sounds tedious. Sorry.

EDIT: I may have an idea how to fix it, I will try that now. The game remembers the options I set, so I just need to modify how it affects things in PokemonTime.

EDIT: fixed, original wall of code updated with working(?) code.

Edited July 26, 2014 by crashteamalphing

[Felicity]

As for the Route 2, I enjoyed that place immensely, it was just challenging enough to feel rewarding when you succeeded, and you had to focus to beat the annoyances of misclicks, which actually brought me into the game much more thn any other puzzle, barring the chess games

[TheRockGhost72]

Off topic, the music on route 2 kept me going. What was that song?

[Nova]

Off topic, the music on route 2 kept me going. What was that song?

IIRC, it's GlitchxCity's Remix of Viridian Forest:

[Yazmat]

Personally I only enjoyed maybe 3 puzzles in the game: Shelly´s Gym, the Heracross/Pinsir puzzle and the one in the Blacstream Factory. Shelly´s puzzle feels most Pokemon-esqe to me and I like the concept of the Heracross/Pinsir puzzle and the Blackstream Factory puzzle. Most puzzles are tedious and not really fun for me. I didn´t even like the puzzle in the Valley for the sole reason I had to teach someone Rock Smash again. Yeah, it´s a TM and you can forget them but still more or less a useless move. I really wish Gamefreak never invented the concept of HM and instead gave us Items.

Edit:

Also a PC before the Steelix battle without fainting beforehand would be really cool

Edited July 26, 2014 by Yazmat

[Saber12]

I think that in itself is probably the main concern in improving Natu's availability. Cottonee had similar utility and was removed, although Magic Bounce is more situational and only works against the proper opponents.

Well, I do think there should be enough mandatory trainers such that a player using a 2-or-3-Pokemon team can keep up in levels. If the player is using more Pokemon, then there should also be enough optional trainers such that those additional Pokemon can be somewhat adequately trained without grinding in the grass.

As Ame pointed out, I mentioned that the mandatory trainer density early in the game is much higher compared to that in the late game, and her suggestion was to reduce the early game trainer density.

Natu's overall movepool makes it even difficult to use in game as well. Magic bounce walls troll pokemon like Klefki, Sablye, and Dusclop whose main job is to cause status effects like swagger, thunder wave, will o wisp, and curse. Most of the enemies in reborn don't have troll movesets like Klefki's thunder wave, swagger, subsitute and foul play. However, those sets still puts Xatu and Espeon in danger of being ko'd by foul play. Cottonee was different that thing could be level one and say "hey Garchomp you know I have this thing called prankster and it lets me leech seed you first no matter how fast you are. Bye bye. " I could see natu being useful for fighting Taka who honestly spams confuse ray way too much with Lileep and deals too much damage with Chatot's chatter.

It would be nice if two or three pokemon could keep up with levels but that sounds a bit difficult to achieve. I know that generally pokemon gain more experience if they defeat opponents with higher level pokemon and less with lower level pokemon. I guess that was Nintendo's way of adding a level cap from gen V onward. Now it takes more time to level up than usual since we no longer gain a consistent amount of experience anymore. What you're suggesting isn't impossible just difficult to do the math for right now. For me at the moment. It wouldn't bother me if adding extra trainers was the case since I almost always have a team of six pokemon.

I'm also thinking about the unintentional consequences that you brought up as well which got me thinking. What if there are so many mandatory trainer battles that the game feels a little claustrophobic where you never seem to get a break from battling? The beginning as you mentioned may have some mandatory trainers removed or become optional. Perhaps for the case you just mentioned it would be better if some trainers had a few extra pokemon so players could gain the necessary experience in case there's an overload of trainers.

Personally I only enjoyed maybe 2 puzzles in the game: Shelly´s Gym, the Heracross/Pinsir puzzle and the one in the Blacstream Factory. Shelly´s puzzle feels most Pokemon-esqe to me and I like the concept of the Heracross/Pinsir puzzle and the Blackstream Factory puzzle. Most puzzles are tedious and not really fun for me. I didn´t even like the puzzle in the Valley for the sole reason I had to teach someone Rock Smash again. Yeah, it´s a TM and you can forget them but still more or less a useless move. I really wish Gamefreak never invented the concept of HM and instead gave us Items.

Edit:

Also a PC before the Steelix battle without fainting beforehand would be really cool

Normally I hate puzzles that look like puzzles. I particularly liked anything that used the environment to form a puzzle that I don't notice as a puzzle until I've solved it or have gotten frustrated enough to quit. I liked Iola Valley because parts of the environment changed and had an appealing look such as the crystal bridges. It would be nice if you could earned something for breaking all the green crystals.

[dondon151]

No you're right you can't. However, Ame is right in saying it's slightly ridiculous to have high level first stage pokemon running around reborn towards the end of the game. The easiest solution to this problem that I can see is to simply have fully evolved pokemon as the main wild species association in the later parts of the game. However, there are people who enjoy the process of evolving their pokemon from the first stage to the last, even if the required level to obtain the last stage of the evolutionary line is below your current team level. Perhaps wild species associations should be a mix of both pre-evolved and post-evolved pokemon, each equally common in order to cater for everyone's individual tastes. Ultimately these sorts of decisions aren't for us to make though, they're for Ame.

I don't understand what's ridiculous about having high leveled unevolved Pokemon - Victory Road has had L36+ Geodude since gen 1, for example.

No, I don't think I would find it any less enjoyable. However, I would probably be less satisfied with (for example) leveling a Mareep up once to see it evolve into a Flaaffy, and then leveling that Flaaffy up once more to obtain an Ampharos, no matter how many levels you need to train the Ampharos for after that, than I would be with a full blown grind from level 10 or so. Whether that lack of satisfaction would be enough to overcome the convenience of catching a Mareep at level 50 rather than level 10 I don't know. I'd probably go with the level 50 one if given the choice. However being someone who doesn't necessarily dislike grinding I'm somewhat grateful to Ame for denying me that choice as I get more satisfaction from the grind. Does that make sense?

Yes, but my response to this would be: why not breed a Mareep if you want the satisfaction from the grind? You even get the side benefits of manipulating its IVs and possibly breeding egg moves.

It would be nice if two or three pokemon could keep up with levels but that sounds a bit difficult to achieve. I know that generally pokemon gain more experience if they defeat opponents with higher level pokemon and less with lower level pokemon. I guess that was Nintendo's way of adding a level cap from gen V onward. Now it takes more time to level up than usual since we no longer gain a consistent amount of experience anymore. What you're suggesting isn't impossible just difficult to do the math for right now. For me at the moment. It wouldn't bother me if adding extra trainers was the case since I almost always have a team of six pokemon.

I don't believe that the gen 5 EXP system makes leveling up take a longer time, because the differences in EXP gain due to level disparity are actually small if the levels are close enough. For example, a L49 Pokemon defeating a L50 Pokemon only gains 5% more EXP than a L50 Pokemon defeating another L50 Pokemon.

It's also not been very effective as a means of level capping, because speedruns still starter solo the game with no problem.

The beginning as you mentioned may have some mandatory trainers removed or become optional. Perhaps for the case you just mentioned it would be better if some trainers had a few extra pokemon so players could gain the necessary experience in case there's an overload of trainers.

This is a good idea.

Yazmat and Rewer made good points about the tiling on Route 2 being weird. Until you get used to it, it's hard to tell whether you can push a Crustle horizontally between two rocks.

Edited July 26, 2014 by dondon151

[Sheep]

I don't understand what's ridiculous about having high leveled unevolved Pokemon - Victory Road has had L36+ Geodude since gen 1, for example.

Level 36 isn't that high leveled. We're talking level 50+

The reason it's ridiculous is, why haven't they evolved yet? It's not like they need a trainer to evolve.

Yes, but my response to this would be: why not breed a Mareep if you want the satisfaction from the grind? You even get the side benefits of manipulating its IVs and possibly breeding egg moves.

Hmm... I'm not sure you get what I'm trying to say. If I was given the choice between the level 10 Mareep and the level 50 one, I'd take the level 50 so why would I want to undo all of that by breeding it?. That's only 'cause I'm lazy though, the fact that Ame doesn't give me the choice, and instead just gives me the level 10 one means I don't get to be lazy. The not lazy part of me is grateful for that.

Edited July 27, 2014 by Sheep

[dondon151]

Level 36 isn't that high leveled. We're talking level 50+

The reason it's ridiculous is, why haven't they evolved yet? It's not like they need a trainer to evolve.

This is true for a L36 Geodude, too. Why hasn't it evolved yet if it's supposed to evolve at L25? Conversely, there have also been examples from previous games of evolved Pokemon existing in the wild at impossibly low levels. I think it's fine for these instances to exist if they're flavorful and/or improve gameplay.

Hmm... I'm not sure you get what I'm trying to say. If I was given the choice between the level 10 Mareep and the level 50 one, I'd take the level 50 so why would I want to undo all of that by breeding it?. That's only 'cause I'm lazy though, the fact that Ame doesn't give me the choice, and instead just gives me the level 10 one means I don't get to be lazy. The not lazy part of me is grateful for that.

You mentioned that you would be less satisfied without having to grind the L10 Mareep. By breeding the Mareep, you get to experience this satisfaction if you so desire it. The guy who doesn't want to grind a Mareep in order to use it is also happy that he can grab one at L50.

Edited July 27, 2014 by dondon151

[Elmo the Pokemaster]

I somehow ended up with the pbs files required to mod episode 9 of reborn on essentials. I used it to change some of the trainers for my own enjoyment. Remember the trainer on opal bridge who used to have a smeargle with just one sketch attack? I changed it to have spore and extreemespeed. much cooler. And several trainers just have the default moveset on there pokemon at that level. Take the Aggron the team meteor guy had in the abra base. I gave him head smash and double edge with the rock head ability, along with an extra pokemon. I feel like some of the trainers had completely stupid sets that limited thier pokemon. Giving some of these trainers items and good movesets could spice up the annoyance of having to battle a trainer every ten feet (or maybe annoy the crap out of some people, but I loved it. I also used the editor to make some popular youtubers fight me in-game, including shofu with a full team including a conkeldur named after him and a dun deal trainer with peanut the seaking and friends, but i wouldn't suggest adding that to the game. Except perhaps for youtubers who have done playthroughs of reborn, like nickaboo and shofu)

[Sheep]

I think it's fine for these instances to exist if they're flavorful and/or improve gameplay.

Unfortunately, when it comes to the placement in the game, that's not your call to make, and neither is it mine. You've said your piece on this, unless you have more to add, and so I'm going to leave it there. Your opinion will no doubt be taken into consideration and we'll have to wait to see what comes of it.

You mentioned that you would be less satisfied without having to grind the L10 Mareep. By breeding the Mareep, you get to experience this satisfaction if you so desire it. The guy who doesn't want to grind a Mareep in order to use it is also happy that he can grab one at L50.

Nope, you're still not getting me. I wouldn't breed the Mareep. I'd take the one at level 50 and go. The difference between you and me (as far as I can tell) is that you don't want to work particularly hard for what you use, whereas I appreciate the hard work that goes into raising a new pokemon, but still won't do it unless I'm forced to because I'm lazy. That's why I like event pokemon, and new wild pokemon being lower levels, it forces me to train them.

[Lost Lore]

The only wild encounters I've seen that bother me are the ones in Iolia Valley: Pidove, Ducklett and Hoothoot. All sitting around level 50 and all rather absurd to have at their first stage at this point in the game, especially when they all appear in earlier locations. The aforementioned Victory Road thing may perhaps be why, but that's not something I would prefer to be carried over, especially considering we're above the level Pokemon in Victory Road tend to be at as of now.

(I'm not including Hoppip or Petilil as they are obtainable otherwise only from events, never mind the fact that the latter evolves with a stone and it'd be kind of silly to have wild Lilligant running around anyway.)

The Natu in the Astrae are a bit silly too, but they're excusable, as they haven't appeared at all prior.

There's also the fact that it does on some very rare occasions go both ways- the fact that there are wild Sunflora running around in Obsidia Park does bother me a little. Granted you wouldn't have access to a Sun Stone at that point and I highly doubt anyone wants to be stuck with a Sunkern, so perhaps this way is better.

As for the puzzles, I've quite enjoyed all of them (...minus maybe chess but at least I'm learning on that front?), including the Crustle one. Going to agree that it is kind of awkward figuring out where you can push them between the rocks, though.