Team Feedback Post Samson

[Etesian]

The core of this discussion is Durant's viability compared to Donphan's. I also didn't bring up flinching as a main attribute, it's just a side thing worth mentioning, so I mentioned it, at no point did I state that it was one of the main good traits. I didn't "reach for Straws", I just mentioned everything worth mentioning.

Excadrill take neutral damage from Ghost, Dark, Ice and Grass attacks. I listed Ghost, Dark, Ice and Grass STABs. Except for Bullet Seed and Ice Punch, every other listed move is a neutral move and a STAB, I listed those as well merely because they're also neutral hits form gym leader's aces. Critting is also unlikely to happen, it's worth mentioning, like I did with Flinching, but that's it. Furthermore, the only priority we've seen so far in any gym was Mamoswine's Ice Shard, nothing else. As such, so far getting 2 turns to buff wouldn't have been a problem against many of the foes we've seen so far.

[Ultra]

The core of this discussion is Durant's viability compared to Donphan's. I also didn't bring up flinching as a main attribute, it's just a side thing worth mentioning, so I mentioned it, at no point did I state that it was one of the main good traits. I didn't "reach for Straws", I just mentioned everything worth mentioning.

Excadrill take neutral damage from Ghost, Dark, Ice and Grass attacks. I listed Ghost, Dark, Ice and Grass STABs. Except for Bullet Seed and Ice Punch, every other listed move is a neutral move and a STAB, I listed those as well merely because they're also neutral hits form gym leader's aces. Critting is also unlikely to happen, it's worth mentioning, like I did with Flinching, but that's it. Furthermore, the only priority we've seen so far in any gym was Mamoswine's Ice Shard, nothing else. As such, so far getting 2 turns to buff wouldn't have been a problem against many of the foes we've seen so far.

Durant does have a decent amount of resistances, but 1/2 attacks still hit him neutrally, while Donphan is hit neutrally by about 3/4 of attacks. Not enough to make up for the physical bulk discrepancy. There.

So...I did address all the Neutral stabs? Good.

Also would like to point out that your calcs are off: You're calculating based off lv 100 damages. At lower levels attacks do more percentage wise.

[Etesian]

Considering that OP's team has options to cover all the attack types that hit Durant neutrally (beside Electric), it's easy to let someone else handle types Durant is neutral to while letting it switch into resistances. Donphan's neutrals are also covered, but you're far more likely to safely switch Durant into one of it's resistances than Donphan, as it has 6 more resistances and an immunity.

So...you didn't. You addressed 2 of 5. Lapras and Bisharp only.

And that hardly changes anything. At the current cap, 70, Tyranitar's Crunch does up to 55.6, while it does up to 54.8 at 100. 0.8% hardly make that much of a difference. Similarly, Bisharp's Night Slash at 70 does up to 45.8, while it does up to 45.1 at 100.

[Ultra]

Considering that OP's team has options to cover all the attack types that hit Durant neutrally (beside Electric), it's easy to let someone else handle types Durant is neutral to while letting it switch into resistances. Donphan's neutrals are also covered, but you're far more likely to safely switch Durant into one of it's resistances than Donphan, as it has 6 more resistances and an immunity.

So...you didn't. You addressed 2 of 5. Lapras and Bisharp only.

And that hardly changes anything. At the current cap, 70, Tyranitar's Crunch does up to 55.6, while it does up to 54.8 at 100. 0.8% hardly make that much of a difference. Similarly, Bisharp's Night Slash at 70 does up to 45.8, while it does up to 45.1 at 100.

The rest of the team checking what hits it neutrally doesn't prevent neutral/special coverage from hitting Durant, which Donphan deals with better.

Uh, didn't feel the need to address Gengar or Tyranitar, as you admitted they 2KO'ed. What's the 5th? And I don't see any more reason to bring this point up, I said Neutral stabs should 2KO as a rough estimate and I was fairly right. Doesn't change the fact that coverage merks him in the majority of cases.

[Etesian]

Durant is bulkier if you switch it into a special resisted hit, than switching Donphan into a special neutral hit. Donphan's 60 base defense isn't anything to write home about either.

I admited no such thing. Tyranitar has about a 60% chance to 2hko, I'll give you that, but Gengar does UP TO 50.9%. It has a 4.7% chance to 2hko. 4.7%. Only the strongest of attackers can get a 2hko with a neutral STAB, by that merit, if even Gengar has such a low chance of doing that.

[Ultra]

Durant is bulkier if you switch it into a special resisted hit, than switching Donphan into a special neutral hit. Donphan's 60 base defense isn't anything to write home about either.

I admited no such thing. Tyranitar has about a 60% chance to 2hko, I'll give you that, but Gengar does UP TO 50.9%. It has a 4.7% chance to 2hko. 4.7%. Only the strongest of attackers can get a 2hko with a neutral STAB, by that merit, if even Gengar has such a low chance of doing that.

No it's not. You're forgetting HP.

Fine, with a fresh switch in Exca can just barely pull off the boost provided that there are no entry hazards, it doesn't get hit with status, and the opposing pokemon does not carry one of its common weaknesses as coverage. At the only pokemon you listed that you could set up on is Bisharp, maybe. Does Excadrill being able to set up in only highly specific situations make it THAT much better than Donphan? Not really.

[Etesian]

Again, you could say it's HP is doubled against resisted attacks, which we said is not difficult to switch into, as the team covers the neutral ones, easily.

To repeat, it doesn't even need buffs in order to be better than Donphan. Speed and Attack are far better even unbuffed. What do you mean, the only one? Only Tyranitar has a realistic shot at 2hko-ing it according to the numbers, all the others can't do it, so 2 turns to buff is quite realistic. And I don't even want to know what you mean by "maybe" as it is guaranteed not to kill it with 2 Night Slashes, 45.8x2<100.

Edited August 14, 2014 by Etesian

[Ultra]

Again, you could say it's HP is doubled against resisted attacks, which we said is not difficult to switch into, as the team covers the neutral ones, easily.

To repeat, it doesn't even need buffs in order to be better than Donphan. Speed and Attack are far better even unbuffed. What do you mean, the only one? Only Tyranitar has a realistic shot at 2hko-ing it according to the numbers, all the others can't do it, so 2 turns to buff is quite realistic. And I don't even want to know what you mean by "maybe" as it is guaranteed not to kill it with 2 Night Slashes, 45.8x2<100.

Even considering that it's not really better.

Coverage. Well, I'm assuming the other pokemon have SE coverage because of the standard moves they carry, can't be bothered to double check.

2 Night Slashes = 50% chance one is a crit = 2ko.

[Etesian]

Crustle's STAB X-Scissor does up to 26% to Donphan, possible 4HKO. The same user's same move does up to 17% to Durant, possible 6HKO. 4<6.

I have no idea what that second line is supposed to mean.

You've lost the right to say that kinda stuff, after dismissing Durant's flinch chance like that. 2 Iron Heads = 60% chance one causes a flinch. That also only goes for Night Slash from something like Bisharp's high attack stat, any non-critical move's 2 hits will very highly likely be survived.

[dondon151]

How does Flare Blitz inhibit sweeping? Having Blaze Kick runs the risk of falling short of KOing and then getting hit, usually harder than what FB recoil could do to you because Blaziken's poor bulk.

Blaziken loses HP as it attacks enemies with Flare Blitz, and it will usually have to take damage to set up. If Blaze Kick doesn't OHKO an enemy, then the solution is to squeeze in an extra Bulk Up. Blaze Kick's 90% accuracy is problematic, but unlike Flare Blitz recoil, it doesn't guarantee that a sweep will fail.

I personally wouldn't put Flare Blitz over Blaze Kick in the speedrun route because it would disable sweeps rather than enable them, and the same principle applies here. The difference probably isn't too big, though.

You really shouldn't expect to 6-0 your opponent with Blaziken anyway. It can do that in some circumstance, but you shouldn't inhibit Blaziken to (marginally) improve its chances of doing so. Being able to sweep up to 3-4 pokes is good as it is.

Why shouldn't this be? Blaziken can 6-0 opponents easily provided he has Bulk Up and Speed Boost. Replacing Bulk Up impedes its ability to do so. How is that a good idea?

2 Night Slashes = 50% chance one is a crit = 2ko.

You've lost the right to say that kinda stuff, after dismissing Durant's flinch chance like that. 2 Iron Heads = 60% chance one causes a flinch.

This is not how probability works, guys.

EDIT: back to the OP, Calm Mind is the best option to replace Charge Beam on Alakazam; it can set up on specially based opponents pretty easily that way.

Edited August 14, 2014 by dondon151

[Ultra]

Blaziken loses HP as it attacks enemies with Flare Blitz, and it will usually have to take damage to set up. If Blaze Kick doesn't OHKO an enemy, then the solution is to squeeze in an extra Bulk Up. Blaze Kick's 90% accuracy is problematic, but unlike Flare Blitz recoil, it doesn't guarantee that a sweep will fail.

I personally wouldn't put Flare Blitz over Blaze Kick in the speedrun route because it would disable sweeps rather than enable them, and the same principle applies here. The difference probably isn't too big, though.

Why shouldn't this be? Blaziken can 6-0 opponents easily provided he has Bulk Up and Speed Boost. Replacing Bulk Up impedes its ability to do so. How is that a good idea?

Even after a Bulk up getting a KO with a Neutral STAB Blaze Kick is questionable on something with decent Bulk. You could use an extra Bulk up, but Blaziken is kind of frail and will struggle to survive a few hits from a decent attacker.

Flare Blitz is better because you can KO many things even after 1 Bulk up, and a decent amount with no set up. I didn't say remove Bulk Up, I said get rid of Acrobatics in favor of BP.

While Blaziken can 6-0 a team, it's fairly difficult to pull off unless it's a team that has a large disadvantage to him. You're probably better off on reliably taking out a few and then BP'ing your boosts on to something healthy

Edited August 15, 2014 by Ultra

[dondon151]

Even after a Bulk up getting a KO with a Neutral STAB Blaze Kick is questionable on something with decent Bulk. You could use an extra Bulk up, but Blaziken is kind of frail and will struggle to survive a few hits from a decent attacker.

Flare Blitz is better because you can KO many things even after 1 Bulk up, and a decent amount with no set up. I didn't say remove Bulk Up, I said get rid of Acrobatics in favor of BP.

While Blaziken can 6-0 a team, it's fairly difficult to pull off unless it's a team that has a large disadvantage to him. You're probably better off on reliably taking out a few and then BP'ing your boosts on to something healthy

Did you look at my speedrun route? Blaziken has no trouble 6-0'ing most boss enemy trainers. Those that he can't handle can be covered by another Pokemon. Once you go through the effort of setting up, it's very favorable to go for the clean sweep rather than choose to switch out.

Blaziken can actually set up against just about any physically-based enemy of a similar level, even if that enemy has a move that Blaziken is weak against (as long as it's not STAB or the enemy has a big atk stat).

Edited August 16, 2014 by dondon151

[Ultra]

Did you look at my speedrun route? Blaziken has no trouble 6-0'ing most boss enemy trainers. Those that he can't handle can be covered by another Pokemon. Once you go through the effort of setting up, it's very favorable to go for the clean sweep rather than choose to switch out.

Blaziken can actually set up against just about any physically-based enemy of a similar level, even if that enemy has a move that Blaziken is weak against (as long as it's not STAB or the enemy has a big atk stat).

Blaziken has an easier time setting up if you have knowledge on an opponent's pokemon/moveset, so I guess in the case of having a pre-planned set-up sweep Blaze Kick is superior. Since you have first hand experience I'll acknowledge that Blaze Kick is a valid option.

Still think BP>Acrobatics, though.

[dondon151]

You mean Brave Bird? That should be okay. Brave Bird lets Blaziken get past guys like Chandelure, and it does some extra damage against Fighting-types (thus requiring 1 less Bulk Up to KO some of them), but it's not very useful otherwise.

[Ultra]

You mean Brave Bird? That should be okay. Brave Bird lets Blaziken get past guys like Chandelure, and it does some extra damage against Fighting-types (thus requiring 1 less Bulk Up to KO some of them), but it's not very useful otherwise.

It should be okay, but Baton Pass opens up soooo much more possibilities. If OP wants to breed that.