Berry Juice and Swirlix

[Rooreeloo]

So I feel like this should be up for discussion in here after a few chats with others on the subject. Discuss Berry Juice in LC here and if it should be let back into the tier. While we're at it, discuss if Swirlix should be banned or not from the LC tier.

Ok, so recently Berry Juice was unbanned and Swirlix was banned. This thread is to discuss how these changes affect the LC tier

Keep it civil, guys.

Edited August 11, 2014 by Rooreeloo

[Shadow Tack]

The thing is that our banlists for LC are similar to smogon's may not be the best thing mind you but after lots of tial and error they DID decide that berry Juice was fine along with Swirlix being a total bith and to be perfectly honest LC is the only tier where I somewhat agree with smogon. Now that you have my opinion I believe it's time for some facts in the form of calcs

Swirlix has almost no universal counters.

Swirlix has far too many sets that are viable thanks to unburden being an ability. It really isn't fun considering it can check pawniard and every common LC threat easily with a belly drum set.

+6 252 Atk Swirlix Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 36 Def Eviolite Mienfoo: 60-72 (285.7 - 342.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

anyways It can run alm mind esets it can run bulky sets ect ect but because of that It has too few universal counters only one I can really think of is gri-

+6 252 Atk Swirlix Return vs. 0 HP / 116 Def Eviolite Grimer: 22-26 (91.6 - 108.3%) -- 50% chance to OHKO nevermind... grimer can OHKO with gunk shot though assuming it isn't running cotton guard. but who runs grimer? one interesting thing to note is that swirlix has wish so It can run a cleric set which wouldn't be tough to fight unless it ran wish/belly drum/protect/play rough that would be painful to fight. now imagine clam mind cotton guard and draining kiss. yeah it gets those. the only real way to stop it is tentacool with our metagame.

now onto my opinion about berry juice. I feel like it shouldn't be banned because just from my tests in the tier on smogon I found all sorts of playstyles hell, I even ran into stall. stall is not easy to run in LC but there's VARIETY on smogon. here on reborn everybody runs hyper offensive or bulky offensive rather than anything else. once in a while you could see a weather but otherwise there was pretty much nothing. now on places with berry juice there is something else.

Overall you can tell my opinion there but most of it is from my time playing LC on showdown this gen. I move for Swirlix to be banned, and berry juice to be unbanned.

[Lord Bagel]

I do agree with Swirlix being banned though i'm not really sure where i stand with the berry juice as in some cases i could see it being over powered but in others not so much

[Mint_Spaghetti]

Agree with blasterman fully

[Shadow Tack]

I have one question. http://prntscr.com/4bmorg WHY THE HELL ISNT SONICBOOM ON THERE IT DOES 20 FIXED DAMAGE WHICH COMPLETELY BREAKS THE LC METAGAME BY OHKOING OR NEARLY OHKOING EVERYTHING GODDAMN IT well at least dragon rage is banned.

[Shanco]

Probably an oversight. I think Sonicboom and Dragon Rage are already banned on LC, perhaps they haven't been listed yet? Paging Dr. Swims...

[Cowtao]

>>;

Well shit I forgot to include something for LC. I'll get squattle to do something about this.